LET GOD BE TRUE........WORSHIP THE FATHER IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH......

by gdt 31 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • gdt
    gdt

    A challenge for any who wish to use their Youngs or Strongs Analytical Concordances, and just listen to the Bible as to the Creator's personage.

    NAMES @ TITLES OF: THE FATHER THE SON THE HOLY SPIRIT

    Descriptive name given yhwh jesus no name, pneuma/ruahh/ wind

    King of Kings yes yes no

    Lord of Lords yes yes no

    Father yes yes no

    Son no yes no

    Rock yes yes no

    Saviour yes yes no

    Ruler yes yes no

    God (el, theos) yes yes no

    Almighty (el shaddai) yes no no

    The God (ho theos) yes no no

    Most High yes no no

    Alpha and Omega yes yes no

    The Agent, and ..... no yes no

    Seed of Abraham no yes no

    Judge yes yes no

    has a god no yes no

    paid the ransom by his life no yes no

    a Priest no yes no

    a Mediator no yes no

    Anointed no yes no

    first born no yes no

    at God's right hand no yes no

    lower than angels (for a time) no yes no

    exalted higher than before no yes no

    subject to anyone no yes no (not as a person)

    given power no yes is power, force

    an angel/messenger no yes no

    son of man no yes no

    an Heir no yes no

    put to death no yes no

    resurrected no yes no

    been in hell (sheol/hades) no yes no

    to be given worship, obeisance yes yes no

    a living spirit person yes yes no

    made woman pregnant no no yes (Mary)

    Sins against, can be forgiven yes yes no

    Greater than, not subject t yes no no

    Creator (ultimate originator) yes no,all else through no

    god of this world no no no

    God-man no no no

    last or second Adam no yes no

    at God's 'right hand' no yes no

    became flesh no yes no

    LORD (all capitals) yes no no

    Lord yes yes no

    I AM (all capitals) yes no no

    God the Father yes no no

    God the Son no no no

    God the Holy Spirit no no no

    The Son of God no yes no

    first and last yes yes no

    divine yes yes no

    to be prayed........ to through no

    called 'it' or 'which' no no yes

    And maybe many titles and qualities missed out, please advise furher. One can but feel awful for the 'holy spirit' if it were part of the godhead, the 'thrid person of the trinity', it was so often unmentioned as necessary for life ....eg Jn 17:3 etc etc. and missed out on all the titles applicable to either the Father or the Son.

    Is not the truth simple enough to accept, without any translation bias or interpretation? Centuries of word and meanings changes have not changed any of the above basics and as the NEB says 'This is life eternal; to know thee who alone art truly God, and Jesus Christ whom thou has sent.'

    Thank you for reading and thinking of this, and I do not hesitate to say I believe the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses, even after all the negatives you read about on this site. (not all dis-similar to the 1st century ones, or the ones inspected by Christ in the first books of Revelation). I welcome any responses.

    gdt.

    (apologies for the typing, lining up etc. an old IBM'er should do better shouldn't they)

  • the_classicist
    the_classicist
    Creator (ultimate originator) yes no,all else through no

    The bible doesn't actually say "all [other] things," it says, "all things." The NWT added this and there is NO reason, except theologically (which is no basis for doing a translation), to put this into the text, as the Greek does not have or imply it.

    The Holy Spirit is referred to as "it" or "which" because it is a neuter noun, it would make NO sense whatsoever to have a pronoun referring to the Holy Spirit in a non-neutral gender.

    There are numerous verses in the New Testament which clearly demonstrate both the personality and divinity of the Holy Spirit. For example, in Acts 13:2, the Holy Spirit says, "Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them." In Acts 10:19-20, this "impersonal force" considers himself to be a person. John 16 supports this idea by referring to the Holy Spirit as a "he" 10 times in the same chapter. First Corinthians 12:11 states that the Holy Spirit "wills," which is an irrefutable attribute of personhood, as is the capacity to love we see demonstrated by the Spirit in Romans 15:30. Scripture also states that the Holy Spirit can: be lied to (Acts 5:3), speak (Acts 10:19-20), hear (John 16:13-15), know the future (Acts 21:11), testify (John 15:26), teach (John 14:26), reprove (John 16:8-11), pray and intercede (Rom. 8:26), guide (John 16:13), call (Acts 13:2), be grieved (Eph. 4:30), feel hurt (Is. 63:10), be outraged (Heb. 10:29), desire (Gal. 5:17) and be blasphemed (Mark 3:29). Only a person is capable of these.

    These examples demonstrate sufficiently that the Holy Spirit is a personal being, and so now one must demonstrate that he is God. Acts 5:1-4 teaches that a lie to the Holy Spirit is a lie to God himself. Isaiah 44:24 insists that God alone created the heavens and the earth, but Job 33:4 and Psalms 104:30 explains that the Holy Spirit created them. Only God is everlasting, and this is likewise an attribute Scripture gives the Holy Spirit (Heb. 9:14). The Jews put Jehovah to the test (Ex. 17:2), and the Holy Spirit takes the words of God, and claims they "tested and tried me" (Heb. 3:9). Unless the Holy Spirit is God, then he is an impostor. Again, in Hebrews 10:16, he claims to have placed his law in man?s hearts, though this was God?s work in Jeremiah 31:33. There is but one Lord (Eph. 4:5), and one Creator (Mal. 2:10), yet both the Father and the Spirit claim they are him (Matt. 11:25 and 2 Cor. 3:17; 1 Cor. 8:6 and Ps. 104:30). Only the Catholic understanding of the Trinity reconciles these passages.
    an angel/messenger no yes no

    And in Hebrews (NRSV), chapter 1, it says:

    Long ago God spoke to our ancestors in many and various ways by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom he also created the worlds. 3 He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact imprint of God's very being, and he sustains all things by his powerful word. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs. 5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have begotten you"? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"? 6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him." 7 Of the angels he says, "He makes his angels winds, and his servants flames of fire." 8 But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions." 10 And, "In the beginning, Lord, you founded the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands; 11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like clothing; 12 like a cloak you will roll them up, and like clothing they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will never end." 13 But to which of the angels has he ever said, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet"? 14 Are not all angels spirits in the divine service, sent to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?
    I AM (all capitals) yes no no

    Technically Jesus simply said, "I AM," in many of the Iohannine passages. Although it can be translated as "I am he." The NAB makes the first translation, though I can easily see how it can go either way and the latter is most sensible.

    Is not the truth simple enough to accept, without any translation bias or interpretation?

    It would be good for us all to pratice this, although that doesn't always happen.

  • The Leological One
    The Leological One

    Good answers Classicist.

    I was thinking of replying until I read your post which covered what I had in mind and more.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    It also seems that the story about Jesus forgiving sins has been misunderstood. The idiom "son of man" meant in this context simply "humans". Humans had authority to forgive sins as Jesus as a man demonstrated.

  • yesidid
    yesidid

    Hi Geoff,

    I also do not believe in the trinity and think the article at this link is one of the best treatments of the trinity I have seen. What do you think?

    http://www.commentarypress.com/eng-onetruegod.html

    yesidid

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Here's an earlier thread on Colossians 1:15:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/79647/7.ashx

  • bebu
    bebu

    How odd to think that the ONLY unforgiveable thing--in all the universe--is to sin against an electricity-type power. Something that is unable to know it was sinned against. How could anyone even sin against something inanimate to begin with, let alone it being worse than blasphemy against God?? It seems to me that the HS is the essence of God, and as such is able to give life. Paul states it, at least:

    Rom 8:11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

    Q: How could an inanimate thing produce and give life on its own, esp. the quality of life such as had by a Christ?? The Spirit is not the inanimate cup that carries life; the Spirit is the life itself.

    a Mediator no yes no

    ISA 59:15 Truth is nowhere to be found,
    and whoever shuns evil becomes a prey.
    The LORD looked and was displeased
    that there was no justice.
    ISA 59:16 He saw that there was no one,
    he was appalled that there was no one to intervene;
    so his own arm worked salvation for him,and his own righteousness sustained him.

    Who is the mediator here? The Father? The Son? But if the Son is the arm--a ray, an extension-- of the Father, metaphorically-speaking, . That is why he does only what he sees the Father doing--because the one-ness is so complete.

    So.. I see Jesus as a kind of interface, a living outer extension of the Father. I see the Holy Spirit as the living inner essence of the Father--His life, truth, goodness, etc. We may err in theology about the outer (Christ) and be forgiven--but if we truly despise righteousness itself (the Spirit), we despise the essence of God.

    One of the more intriguing arguments I've read for the trinity is the truth that God is love. The Father did not love Himself (mere narcissism), but has eternally loved outward to another (the Son); and the depth of this love binds also them into a one-ness which has a shadow in marriage and in child-bearing... If you begin to grasp what love really is, you see that it is expressed in both unity and division. For God, that is an eternal experience.

    bebu

    With .02

  • FairMind
    FairMind
    How odd to think that the ONLY unforgiveable thing--in all the universe--is to sin against an electricity-type power. Something that is unable to know it was sinned against.

    I think we have to keep in mind that the Holy Spirit is not an independent force but emanates from Jehovah God. Knowingly resisting God?s Holy Spirit would have to be a willful rebellion against God himself. This is why a sinning against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable. God takes this sin personally as it is the most serious sin against him that can be committed.

  • SallySue
    SallySue

    Just two questions...

    How can Jehovah be the first and the last and Jesus be the first and the last?

    And,

    Does that mean you worship two gods? (since Jesus is a god too)

  • hmike
    hmike

    I would only add that we have God's word by the Holy Spirit, and the work of the Holy Spirit is to bring glory to the Father and the Son. He does not "toot his own horn." So, don't expect to see the Spirit worshipped or glorified.

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