How can you just let go?

by squeaky 25 Replies latest social relationships

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  Oroborus21

  Euphemism:

  That is certainly your opinion and you are welcome to it. I am not going to try and dissuade you from it.

  I understand that this board is populated with a lot of Ex-JWs and others who are opposed to Witnesses so no doubt your opinion is popular here.

  However, calling the situation of children being raised one of Jehovah's Witnesses "abusive" is not only error it detracts from REAL abusive situations of neglect, physical and sexual abuse of children or cases of true emotional and psychological abuse.

  So, I am not as you say, saying that JWs are Ok because they are "less" abusive because they are not abusive in the first place - and to assert that they are (begs the question) of assuming an extremely difficult and disputed point, namely that JWs religion and upbringing is abusive itself. (Sure, individuals may have circumstances where they were abused but this has nothing to do with the JW religion itself.)

  As for the JW religion, you can prove to me that teaching the concept of Armageddon where all bad people will be destroyed is any more or less harmful than Catholics and Protestants teaching that bad persons go to a place called Hell.

  As one who was raised as a Jehovah's Witness and who is now not only not associated but working for change within the Organization, I think that I am in a position to speak from experience. (Even, if my upbringing was more liberal than most that I know.)

  "Did I miss not celebrating Birthdays or Christmas, yes/no, not really, maybe, that is hard to say, for how do I know for sure. Probably they would have been nice and on the other hand they are no big deal."

  This is the kind of "psychology" that a typical ex-JW like me may have. Is not celebrating Christmas a crime, i.e. "abuse" No, of course not.

  Yes, I believe, because I know myself, the conflict of one who was raised a Jehovah's Witness and who now understands that there are many things wrong with both the religion and the culture. BUT I WILL POINT OUT TO YOU THAT THIS CONFLICT EXISTS IN THOSE THAT LEAVE THE ORGANIZATION and SOME who remain in it. BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, there are many many more that are living and have lived their lives doing what they believe is correct and right and living as Jehovah's Witnesses. These ones do not feel "ABUSED" because of their own choices.

  Having said all of that, I say if you think someone gave you a wrong deal in the past, GET OVER IT! Move on and look to the future.

  When I studied psychology in college (just one of my majors) I was never a big fan of the people or therapies that focused on the past (whether it be infancy or childhood, or last year that something happened to you) these approaches in counseling and practice never seemed to produce any good and positive results and certainly do not PROVIDE A FRAMEWORK FOR THE PERSON TO MOVE FORWARD in life.

  I SEE A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE THAT COMPLAIN AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THEIR PAST. If Jesus teaches us anything in the Bible it is to look forward and to forgive the sins and those that have trespassed against us.

  -Eduardo

  PS:I suggest you carry this discussion to another thread so we don't hijack this one.
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  Euphemism

  Oroborus... in all honesty, I think this topic has been done to death on the board, so I'm not going to start another thread on it. Just to respond to one thing you said:

  As for the JW religion, you can prove to me that teaching the concept of Armageddon where all bad people will be destroyed is any more or less harmful than Catholics and Protestants teaching that bad persons go to a place called Hell.

  My problem is not with Witness theology, it's with the practice that is based on that theology. As I mentioned in my previous post, the problems of JWism are just virulent forms of the more general problems of fundamentalism. Plenty has been written (in fiction and non-fiction form) about the travails of growing up in ultra-strict Catholic environments, for example.

  It seems to me that our real area of divergence is less about the JWs than about the importance of childood experience. That plays into the division in psychiatry between psychoanalytic vs. symptom-focused approaches, which I agree is a whole other topic.
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  stopthepain

  OOH,you have majors.How impressive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!People the the right to not be lied to.The Org will never admit anything.Just come out and say your not gods channel.Stop the charade,the predictions,the sketchy history,pyrimiads,1914,144000,un,blood doctrine,false predictions,molestation accusations,disfellowshipping,way to much literature,way to many meetings,elders wielding false immoral power,no checks and balances,stunted emotional growth,fear and guilt scare tactics used to make children believe,no o9utside thought,judging in spirit anyone who isn't a JW,They are just like the pharissees in the bible.All organized religion sucks.Jehovahs witness sucks reall bad.stp

  PS-catholism doesn't require you believe in hell,and they do not preach it as such.Witnesses pick on them for changing thier beliefs,and having "sacred secrets",HEY<WTBTS,you don't have to know everything,especially when you have to twist lies into more lies!!!
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  love11

  First, the JW lifestyle/religion is restrictive comparable to any strict moral upbringing of many other faiths.

  Being raised with strict morals is completely different than being raised in a brainwashing, mind-altering cult.

  a kid/person should begin making their own choices and forming their own belief system. I see that you are 24 years old and some months, so you should be well on your way to forming your own belief-system.

  All you have to do is take Psychology 101 at your local community college, and you will know that it takes years of reprogramming your brain to know what is truely your own belief-system and not that of what has been fed to you through the years. Hence, the paradigm shift.

  Take Elizabeth Smart for instance, she was raised in what seems a normal loving family. Brian Mitchell brainwashed her so much that she was living right behind her parents home and never yelled for help. Now... if someone could be brainwashed to that extent, then what about someone from the moment they were born. You can't blame people for making bad decisions in life when they were taught the only right decision to make is to stay in this cult. This cult demands something from you which is impossible to give- perfection. Guilt can be so overwhelming because you think that you won't have an afterlife just because you did something so unbelievably petty.

  My sister was raped by two elders boys. No one believed her and my parents said not to worry that God will punish them. She was told by the elders that she needed to wear shirts that weren't so revealing. She was very modest, but it's hard to hide C cups at 13 years old. After that, she couldn't stomach going back to the hall anymore and my parents would beat her for not getting herself dressed to go. So she ran away from home, to get away from their warped view of the world, at 13 years old with no money and she couldn't work till age 16 legally. So she began to do "favors" to get money and shelter. At first it was just her friends and then it was with strangers. She had such a tremendous guilt on her for doing what Jehovah hated that she took drugs to numb her feelings. After years of drugs, her mind is now fried and her children are taken away from her. The thing is- she was more spiritual than I was and she had an intense love for God and loved studing for the kingdom hall, before the rape happened. Those two boys ended up raping someone else- another elders daughter. Finally, they were disfellowshipped, but not imprisoned. You can say well- you are free to make your own decisions as an adult. But one thing leads to another and then another and before you know it, you end up being someone you never thought you would. That's what happens, you don't just wake up one morning and say I think I'm going to decide to really mess my life up because I was raised with " strict morals " or because " I couldn't celebrate holidays when all the other kids are allowed to". No- that's not how it happens. Sorry so long- just needed to vent. My sister called up crying tonight saying she wanted to kill herself. Why- my dad said that she was nothing to him because she didn't go to the memorial. I said everything I could, but you never know what she's thinking. I hope she's alright.
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  Oroborus21

  love:

  Obviously, I wasn't referring to the extreme or exceptional cases in my posts. As I mentioned earlier we have to separate cases of actual abuse and wrongdoing from what occurs "normally." Your sister was the victim of actual abuse that had nothng to do with the practice of the JW religion, although it is human nature, just as all Catholism should not be blamed for the wrongful actions of a few priests, likewise all of the JW religion should not be blamed for the wrongful actions of a few members.

  I would also point out that I am not talking to responses to specific medical emergencies that could be helped with a blood transfusion. Although I respect the rights of parents to make medical decisions on behalf of their children, however misguided they may be, I personally do not support our stance against blood. In these situations, and only in these situations could one claim that the "JW upbringing" was dangerous (although I wouldn't classify it as "abusive" but that is just an argument in nonmenclature). But again, this is not what I was discussing, I was discussing the general JW upbringing which is NOT abusive and objectively could not be classified so.

  ONe may vehemently disagree with the theology but that doesn't change the facts. As humans, we do tend to personalize things and to make the logical fallacy of drawing a generalization from an individual circumstance but that too is a mistake. The individual case, although sometimes tragic and horrifying, is not a good basis for generalized statements. Even a series of simiilar incidents would be contrary to the evidence that there have been many generations and today are many milllions of happy and healthy Jehovah's Witnesses and would only validate the exception not the rule.

  -Eduardo
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  jeanniebeanz

  I say if you think someone gave you a wrong deal in the past, GET OVER IT!

  Are you out of your mind, Eduardo? How could you make such a callous, ignorant statement like that in a place like this? There are people here who are genuinely hurting and you are being very cold to that.

  Part of healing is being able to talk about the issues in a place like this. That talking is what you are refering to as wining and complaining. If you don't like it *go away*

  J