by aud8 19 Replies latest jw friends
What about the biblical truths explined by the Witnesses? Yes there are many things wrong with the organisation, but they did get a lot right - trinity, hell etc etc Is anyone grateful for some of the teachings they received whilst being a Witness?
Aud8
yes. thank you.
mox
Yes, I am grateful for what I've learned. The Witnesses have set a fine example in many ways and have taught many truths. Most JWs are sincere, hard workers who study the Bible, love God, and care about people.
I am still a Witness. I haven't left. And I know that no organization is perfect and infallible. Where I am finding difficulty is in deciding to what degree we use the explanation of "we are all imperfect and make mistakes?" In other words, how many wrongs DON'T make a right (if you know what I mean). After all, we denouce other religions for the dishonest and immoral practices within their clergy and their ranks. So where do we draw the line when we see wrongdoing in our own ranks?
Obviously, there was dishonesty and wrongdoing in ancient Israel, and within the first-century Christian congregation too. So it should not surprise us to see it in Jehovah's organization. On the other hand, the governing body is supposed to be led by God's spirit, so we expect them to at least do what's right to the best of their ability.
When we see things going wrong in the organization (especially at higher levels), fellow brothers and sisters being treated unfairly and suffering without help, or see manmade suggestions becoming unspoken "rules," etc., it puts us in a terrible quandry. Do we fall back on the "we're all imperfect" realization, the "vengeance is mine, I will repay, says Jehovah."? Or do we speak up, like some did in Bible times, to try to correct the matter? Do we become inactive, because we still believe it's the Truth, but our conscience no longer permits us to go to people's doors and encourage them to join an organization that we believe is God's but is tainted enough by imperfection that there are some serious problems? Or do we just give up and get out, thinking maybe it has lost God's favor?
WHAT TO DO? I have no answer to that. Only questions.
But in answer to your question, YES, I AM grateful for the things I've learned as a JW!
And now I have to quit posting, as thinking about all of this is just too overwhelming and is giving me a headache.
In the first few months of my leaving the org, I did try to find positives such as those you mentioned. At the same time, while the "hell" doctrine is a big deal, many other things, the trinity included, I came to believe where pretty much non-issues. God and Jusus are one. Jah and Jesus are NOT one. But He said They are one. Who said they are one. Exactly. Oh. One but not really one? yes. no. maybe.
How could it possibly be of any importance to anyone but the most petty of humans? Like me for instance, a year or so ago.
Now, it is of zero concern to me, even hellfire, except to the point that I can help others escape from these Babylonish teachings. I don't see the finger, mind, or heart of God in the Bible any more so than I see it in the Grainger Industrial Supply catalog. Less really, if you think about it. The Grainger Industrial Supply catalog is logical, well laid out, cross-referenced from its inception, shows gobs and gobs of intelligent design, makes full use of the internet as a symbiotic partner, and believe me, if you spend your days immersed in this 4009 page tome, you will stay out of trouble.
The only thing I got out of the WTS was not from the WTS, but from the bible. Namely, honesty and hard work. That's about it.
TR
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
—Edmund Burke
: What about the biblical truths explined by the Witnesses?
Yes, what about them? You tell us.
Every church teaches some truth. A church that taught mostly untruths wouldn't last long.
How grateful should anyone be for learning truths from any quarter? I am grateful to many, many people and organizations for what I know. I am grateful to my country for setting up a reasonably good school system. I'm grateful to the colleges I attended, to the teachers I've met over the years. I'm grateful to the establishments of science that have taught me so much. I'm grateful to various religious organizations such as the United Bible Societies and the Catholic Church for providing massive amounts of religious information. I'm grateful for insights into life provided by many religions and philosophical groups.
Does being grateful to these groups mean that I should render them exclusive devotion as is demanded by the leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses?
You're missing the point of most criticism of the JWs.
The point is that JWs claim to be God's exclusive religious organization. They damage a lot of people by taking that view to its ultimate -- by their death-dealing blood policy, their damage to family and friends by disfellowshipping, damage to health by their poor physical/mental health advice, by their isolating members from family society and society at large, by insisting that improving one's lot in life by attending college is a bad thing, and in many other areas.
All churches teach a mixture of truth and falsehood, have good and bad points. None are so much better than any other that they can reasonably claim to be 'divinely directed' to the exclusion of everyone else. Not one serves as "God's spokesman", as JW leaders claim they do.
The anger you see among many critics is due to the damage that Watchtower leaders continue to do, and to the arrogant dismissal of all criticisms by these self-appointed prophets.
Do you honestly think that merely getting a few teachings right makes a group of men into God's exclusive channel of communication to mankind? Does it authorize them to claim that they and they alone have The Truth? Does it mean that they can rationally claim that the Bible was written for a special sub-class among them (the anointed) and that only they can understand it, and that numerous Bible prophecies are today being fulfilled upon them?
Try tackling these real questions and then see if you can combine the answers with your original question. You'll then see the answer.
AlanF
aud8,
What about the biblical truths explined by the Witnesses?
Yes, indeed, what about them? You tell me.
Yes there are many things wrong with the organisation, but they did get a lot right - trinity, hell etc etc
Good grief. You talk about what they "got right" and you simply list examples of disbelief. True, there is no such thing as a trinity. True, there is no such thing as a hell. The reason the JWs got that right, is because they deny stupid religious ideas. Religious ideas are practically always either wrong, impossible to find out or meaningless. Anyone can get denials right. Who can find out whether a particular deity has one or three heads? The question doesn't even make sense.
It's when they start to preach actual doctrines, assertions about what is and not what isn't, that the JWs are as much out to lunch as everybody else. And, which is more important, they are much more destructive, vicious and stupid in so being.
The term "Biblical truths" is an oxymoron.
Is anyone grateful for some of the teachings they received whilst being a Witness?What should I be thankful for? I don't see anything positive or correct about any non-trivial JW teaching ever.
If you can think of one, do tell me.
- Jan
--
Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911]
May you have peace!
In all truth, I have actually learned that NOTHING the WTBTS... save that my Father is not a 'trinity'... is true and accurate. NOTHING. Since I stopped drinking their 'wormwood' and poisonous 'water'... and received, instead 'life's water', I have heard... and learned... that if you take EVERYTHING they teach and 'flip' it... it is THEY who are the apostates, blind guides, false christs, false prophets, scribes AND Pharisees, rather than all those who they point fingers at.
I have heard and learned that virtually EVERY interpretation, rendering... and translation... of what IS contained in the Bible... made by them is either inaccurate, incorrect, erroneous, false, untrue or a just plain lie.
Tell me, how is that an institution of people who claim to be 'the visible represenation of the Lord on earth', who don't even know what the Word of God is, HAVE 'truth', let alone BE 'the truth'?
John 1:14
Revelation 19:13
How can an institution of people who claim to have love, but TEACH hatred and division, know God? For God... IS love and all those 'hating' their brother do not originate with God, but like Cain, originate with the Devil.
You poor people have been sadly misled. And why? Because you want to be. As my Father said through the prophet Jeremiah:
"The prophets themselves actually prophesy in falsehood,
and as for the priests, they go subduing according to
their powers. And my own people have loved
it that way, and what will you men DO... in the finale
of it?"
You are buying into their lying interpretations because you WANT to buy into it. You don't see... because you don't WANT to see anything other than what they TELL you to see. And the outcome? They are 'blind guides'... and they are leading the 'blind'... YOU... into the same pit into which they are going.
Matthew 15:14
Matthew 23:13-15 (please, don't skip over the footnote...)
As my Lord has said to Israel through my brother John:
"Because you say, 'I am rich and have acquired riches
and do not need anything at all, but you do not KNOW
(nope, you don't even KNOW)... you are MISERABLE and
PITIABLE and POOR and BLIND and NAKED. I advise you
to buy... FROM ME (from my Lord and NOT from some
'visible' organization led by a hypocritical grou of
bigoted men who systematically endeavor to throttle
ALL Bible teaching ... unless it comes through THEM')
... gold... refined by FIRE that you may become
rich, and white outer garments that you may become
dressed and that the SHAME of your nakedness may not
become MANIFESTED... and EYESALVE to rub in
your eyes... that you may SEE."
But, ah, well, Israel... always needing a 'king'... always needing a 'leader' that they can 'see'. Something 'visible'... even though we were TOLD to keep our eyes not on the things SEEN... but on the things UNSEEN.
You have but ONE 'leader', dear ones... and he is NOT 'visible'... for his presence is INVISIBLE. And he has been with us since his raising up in the SPIRIT ("Look! I am WITH you ALL the days until the conclusion of the ages.") And to worship GOD... you MUST worship Him IN spirit... and in TRUTH. (John 8:32, 14:6, 8:36)
Therefore, I say to all of you here, by the power of the spirit of my Father that is in me, holy spirit, by means of my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH...
"KISS THE SON!"
STOP putting your trust in 'earthling man'... to whom NO salvation belongs! Remove yourselve from among them and QUIT touching the 'unclean thing'. It is only THEN that you will be taken in as sons and daughters... for harmony is there between one chosen by JAH... and one who is without JAH as their God? For JAH... IS His name (Psalm 68:4).
You can stop being misled by those who 'shut up the kingdom of the heavens before you'... and load you down with burdens that they themselves can't even carry... and take upon you a MUCH lighter 'yoke'.
Matthew 11:28
You can stop drinking poisonous water, wormwood, water that judges and condemns you to DEATH... and drink instead from the cistern that provides LIVING water... water that become IN you a 'fountain bubbling up to impart everlasting life.'
John 4:10, 13, 13
John 7:37, 38
If you are truly THIRSTING, if you are truly WISHING and if you are HEARING... you CAN... heed the 'call' and ACCEPT the invitation to "COME! Take 'lifes' water'... FREE!...
which invitation you have been misled to believe is not offered to you. Or... you can continue to BE misled... and 'refrain'.
The 'choice'... is entirely yours. And you can choose LIFE (John 14:6)... or you can choose DEATH (Proverbs 14:12).
There is only ONE to whom we are to 'listen', dear ones... only One.
Matthew 17:13
John 10:1-5, 27
I bid you all peace!
A TRUE servant to the Household of God, Israel, by means of an anointing with holy spirit, and a TRUE slave of Christ,
SJ - Praise JAH, you people... and no one else. Let every living thing, every living BREATHING thing... let is praise JAH!
Billygoat's Top 10 Positive Things I Learned as a JW:
10. How to work hard.
9. How to speak publicly without fainting.
8. Wear comfortable shoes at all times.
7. That not everything is what it seems.
6. That an 11 o'clock break at the local Quick Shop is still fun!
5. Look for truth in people's actions - not their words.
4. That compared to a Watchtower lesson, watching "Ishtar" isn't that bad.
3. Country music sucks!
2. Rap music sucks!
and the number one positive thing I learned as a JW?
1. How to stand up for what I believe - even if family believes something else. (Boy that backfired on 'em, didn't it???)
My 2 cents,
Billygoat
I have thought this over in the past few months and come to this conclusion:
I have never come across a stranger group of people, true mavericks. After growing up in a small town and being the only Witness to go through the public school system and bashing heads with every authority in town, I have learned to be a true to what I believe, although at times I let others tell me what that was. I don't fear what anyone thinks of me. I guess I'm grateful for that.
