Nark, I couldn't believe the French use "ordinateur" for computer. Sound preposterous to me. Was it an invention of French prescriptive linguists? Where does it come from etymologically?
Pole
Do you capitalize the word "internet"?
by seattleniceguy 17 Replies latest jw friends
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Pole
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Narkissos
Pole,
I don't know exactly the origin of the word ordinateur (first attested in 1951, according to my dictionary; from Latin ordo, ordinis, "order"), but usually those French neologisms start out as official recommendations from the French Academy (Académie française); of course only a few of them stick in the long run (at least in France, for French Canadians are usually much more committed to avoid lexical anglicisms -- but they allow for many more structural anglicisms!). Ordinateur and logiciel just happened to be successes (probably because they were popularised at the very start of the corresponding technology).
Interestingly Spanish uses both ordenador and computador: the latter is dominant but has not eliminated the former.
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FMZ
lmao mtbatoon.... Gets me every time
FMZ
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seattleniceguy
LOL @ AlanF...
Well I suppose I am a bit archaic, since I most certainly am still in awe of the capabilities of the Internet.
Sorry, I didn't mean to insinuate anything. :-) What I meant was that, it seems like when technology is first introduced, we give it a name that is meant to mark its novelty, like "horse-less carriage" for the automobile. The name "horse-less carriage" suggests, to me, some degree of surprise that a carriage could exist without a horse in the front. But after people have become used to the technology, I think it starts to feel affected and perhaps a bit backward to keep marking it off as so special a word. Imagine the reaction you'd get today if you used that name instead of car.
Internet I can certainly see, because it is a proper name for a specific network. But e-mail, with the dash, seems more and more yesterday's news to me. It seems to contain an element of suprise that mail should be e-. Mark it off with a dash, it's special! That's how it feels to me, anyway.
talesin,
Actually, the two are different. The Internet refers to the infrastructure - the worldwide network of networks. The World Wide Web refers to a web of documents delivered via HTTP, using the infrastructure of the Internet. (See: http://www.webopedia.com/DidYouKnow/Internet/2002/Web_vs_Internet.asp)
SNG
(Edited because I forgot to sign my name)
(Edited because I forgot a comma...dammit!) -
Euphemism
Good question... I usually just say "the 'net" (often without an apostrophe).
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jeanniebeanz
My Microsoft Word capitalizes it for me, I don't care one way or another... lol
Jeannie
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MAHABA
I don't know exactly the origin of the word ordinateur (first attested in 1951, according to my dictionary; from Latin ordo, ordinis, "order"), but usually those French neologisms start out as official recommendations from the French Academy
In the spring of 1955, IBM France was about to build in corbeil-essonnes (
Electronic Data Processing System" or EDPS.
Computer" was rather used to describe scientific machines and was rather translated by "calculateur, calculatrice."
Being Asked by the advertising?s director from IBM, François Girard decided to seek after the advice of one of his masters ?Jacques Perret? famous master of Latin philology in Sorbonne (France), to create a neologism for the EDPS,
To do that, F.Girard wrote a letter signed by C.de Waldner , executive of IBM France.
He gave a few description of the nature and functions of the new machines and sent a prospectus depicting the device.
On April 16 th , professeur Perret give him an answer.
The ?Computer IBM 650? can be brought on the market with a name.?ORDINATEUR"
The name copyright protected by IBM, was quickly adopted by specialists and among executive people.
So IBM , left the word ?ordinateur? in public domain.
Définition of the word Ordinateur given in "the Littré "
(famous french dictionnary of the 19th century)
ORDINATEUR , TRICE (or-di-na-teur, tri-s'), adj.1° Qui met l'ordre, qui arrange. Il pensait que la cause universelle, ordinatrice et première était bonne, DIDER. Opin. des anc. philos. (Pythagorisme).
En ce sens on dit aussi ordonnateur.
2° S. m. Celui qui confère un ordre de l'Église. Quel crime c'est.... de reconnaître pour Églises celles qui ne peuvent pas rapporter la suite de leurs pasteurs aux apôtres comme à leurs ordinateurs, BOSSUET 2e instr. sur les passages, dissert. sur Grotius, 21.
Following is a copy of the letter of Mr Jacques Perret (sorry in French, too long to translate) :
Le 16 IV 1955
Cher Monsieur,
Que diriez vous d? »ordinateur » ? C?est un mot correctement forme, qui se
trouve meme dans le Littre comme adjectif designant Dieu qui met de l?ordre
dans le monde. Un mot de ce genre a l?avantage de donner aisement un verbe
« ordiner », un nom d?action « ordination ». L?inconvenient est que « ordination »
designe une ceremonie religieuse ; mais les deux champs de signification
(religion et comptabilite) sont si eloignes et la ceremonie d?ordination
connue, je crois, de si peu de personnes que l?inconvenient est peut-etre
mineur. D?ailleurs votre machine serait « ordinateur » (et non ordination)
et ce mot est tout a fait sorti de l?usage theologique.
« Systemateur » serait un neologisme, mais qui ne me parait pas offensant ;
il permet « systemation » ; - mais systemer ne me semble guere utilisable -
« Combinateur » a l?inconvenient du sens pejoratif de « combine » ; « combiner »
est usuel donc peu capable de devenir technique ; « combination » ne me parait
guere viable a cause de la proximite de « combinaison ». Mais les Allemands
ont bien leurs « combinats » (sorte de trusts, je crois), si bien que le mot
aurait peut-etre des possibilites autres que celles qu?evoque « combine ».
« Congesteur », « digesteur » evoquent trop « congestion » et « digestion »
« Synthetiseur » ne me parait pas un mot assez neuf pour designer un objet
specifique, determine comme votre machine.
En relisant les brochures que vous m?avez donnees, je vois que plusieurs
de vos appareils sont designes par des noms d?agent feminins (trieuse,
tabulatrice). « Ordinatrice » serait parfaitement possible et aurait meme
l?avantage de separer plus encore votre machine du vocabulaire de la
theologie.
Il y a possibilite aussi d?ajouter a un nom d?agent un complement :
« ordinatrice d?elements complexes » ou un element de composition, par ex.:
« selecto-systemateur ». - « Selecto-ordinateur » a l?inconvenient de 2 « o »
en hiatus, comme « electro-ordinatrice ».
Il me semble que je pencherais pour « ordinatrice electronique ».
Je souhaite que ces suggestions stimulent, orientent vos propres facultes
d?invention. N?hesitez pas a me donner un coup de telephone si vous avez
une idee qui vous paraisse requerir l?avis d?un philologue.
Votre
J. Perret
(un facsimile de la lettre originale est disponible aupres de J.C. Vey
Direction de la Communication IBM France Tours Septentrion Paris la Defens00075
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dh
i don't really use the word 'internet' at all, i tend to refer to it in terms of 'the net' or 'online', i.e. 'i was on the net' or 'i was just doing something online'...