John 21 the ending of Mark?

by peacefulpete 12 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    About Mark 16:12, I only have the TDNT at hand, which remarks (IV, 750): "The idea rests on reflection on Lk. 24:16, but is also reminiscent of popular Gk. beliefs concerning the epiphany of divine beings." Pp. 746ff offer many examples of the classical Greek or Hellenistic motif of gods appearing to humans under various forms (morphè or eidos), against which Plato polemicises with an alternate concept of the unchanging morphè of the divine (Resp. II. 380ff). I guess TLG could offer many examples of similar uses of morphè, with either allos or heteros. On the other hand, phaneroô is a Hellenistic construct and is rarely found outside Jewish or Christian writings.

    As for the depiction of Thomas as "one of the Twelve" in John 20:24, it doesn't strictly imply the presence of Judas in the previous apparition: (1) it refers to Thomas status as part of a previously defined category (6:66ff), and (2) since "Thomas... one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came" they were obviously not twelve in this circumstance. But it is still interesting that GJohn insists that Judas' "devilish" role in the Passion plot is not an accident: Judas is deliberately chosen among the Twelve as a "devil" (6:70f). So the idea of having him remain in that group is quite appealing imo. (Whether the Judas -- Ioudas -- character is a complete anti-Jewish -- Ioudaios -- fabrication in the first place is a distinct possibility, and it would also make much sense in GJohn.)

  • confusedjw
    confusedjw
    Leolaia, you especially amaze me with your quick responses. By the time I have read something you have already posted an extensive commentary with documentation.

    Jst2laws

    Right. That is why she has my split vote for MVP this year. Blondie gets the other half.

    Simon can they be put on the payroll?

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    I understand your arguemnt for "THE 12" being a monolithic moniker (that was fun) and surely it was. The very concept of "the 12" was a later element to the jesus stories, added out of a mix of mysticism, jewish parallelism and neeed for eclesiastical authority. But the 12 never means less than 12. It's like ringo and Paul going on tour as "the Fab Four". Or the "fantastic Four" without The Thing. Like Nark just said, John 20:24 is hearkening back to the rest of the tale to introduce an obscur character. Notice however that psMark calls this group "the Eleven" at this point in the story.

    About psMark, Yes that does sound docetic or like nark said, metamorphous. I don't have the talents to help.

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