Why is Paradise Earth to be taken literally?

by I_love_Jeff 15 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  I_love_Jeff

  Why do the Jehovah's Witnesses feel that Paradise Earth is a literal place?

  
  I posted this question in Yahoo Answers if anyone is interested: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20150125163818AAtmbTR

  Why believe poetic Promised Land prophecy is to be taken literally, but Scriptures saying the earth will end must be taken figuratively?
  End of Earth-Not literal??
  Psalms 102:25-26, Isaiah 51:6-,Isaiah 65:17-18,Matthew 24:34-35, 2 Corinthians 5:1, Hebrews 1:10-12, 2 Peter 3:10-13
  
  2 Bible books referring to earth lasting to time indefinite or forever: Psalms and Ecclesiastes, both devoted to poetry.
  Psalm 37:29 (see also Psalm 104:5; Psalm 78:69; Psalm 104:5; Ecclesiastes 1:2-4)
  Taken from poetic books, these are not literal, nor refer to Jesus kingdom rule. As the Watchtower admits, the accepted meaning is that they refer to the Israelites inheriting the Promised Land.
  “‘E´rets can refer to a distinct region or to the territory of a nation, such as “the land of Shinar” or “the land of Egypt.”—Genesis 10:10, 11; 21:21; Psalm 78:12; Jeremiah 25:20.
  So Psalm 37:11, 29 might indicate that the Israelites could have been and should have been permanent occupants of the Promised Land. In accord with God’s covenant with Abraham, they could have remained in that territory that God gave them, with generation after generation enjoying his blessings there.” Watchtower 1986 Jan 1 p.31
  
  Forever and time indefinite can be figurative and come to an end, such as at 1 Kings 1:31
  
  Why believe poetic Promised Land prophecy is to be taken literally, but Scriptures saying the earth will end must be taken figuratively?

  Here is something interesting to note:
  
  The Watchtower identifies this as heaven;
  
  "Eating in "the Paradise of God." Revelation 2:7 mentions a "tree of life" in "the paradise of God" and that eating from it would be the privilege of the one "that conquers." Since other promises given in this section of Revelation to such conquering ones clearly relate to their gaining a heavenly inheritance (Re 2:26-28; 3:12, 21), it seems evident that "the paradise of God" in this case is a heavenly one."

  Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2 p.576 Paradise

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  
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  I_love_Jeff

  Any counterarguments would be greatly appreciated. I am doing a study on this particular response. I have come across some faulty reasoning thus far...................LOL go figure.
  

  Here is what a Jehovah's Witness has to say about the topic:

  "You are confusing poetry with figurative expressions. Poetry has nothing to do with whether something is figurative or literal. Only the immediate and greater context determines if something is figurative or literal.
  
  An examination of the verses which state that the earth will exist forever shows that these are explicit & not symbolic. On the other hand, EVERY verse which is used in an attempt to show that the earth will be destroyed is actually in a symbolic context or a hyperbolic comparison (e.g. “I’ll love you till the wind stops blowing”).
  
  The rules of exegesis state that you cannot use symbolic terminology to contradict what is explicitly stated.
  
  First you are incorrect in your claim that the verses saying the earth is forever occur in “poetic Promised Land prophecy” which must not “be taken literally.” None of these verses are found in promised land contexts.
  
  The context of Ps.37:29 contains no mention of any limit to a “land” nor any figurative language.
  Ps. 104:5 and 148:3-7 are explicitly speaking of the *creation* of the literal heavens and earth–the cosmos in its totality!!
  Ec.1:4 is explicitly speaking literally of the whole earth and its solar and water cycles!!
  
  So these scriptures explicitly show that the literal physical earth will exist forever and that righteous humans will inherit eternal life on it.
  
  
  There is another obvious error in your statements which skews your interpretation. That is, you state: “Forever and time indefinite can be figurative and come to an end.” This is an erroneous and misleading statement which is only half right.
  
  Yes, the word at 1Kgs 1:31 is OLAM and literally denotes “time indefinite” but it also can carry the connotation of “eternity” depending on the context and parallel texts.
  
  But your statement is false because the Hebrew word for “forever” is ‘AD and always means "eternal" (1Ch 28:9; Ps 19:9; Isa 9:6; 45:17; Hab 3:6; Dan.12:3). This is the word used of the earth lasting “forever.” So God’s Word EXPLICITLY states that the earth will exist "forever" or for "eternity" (‘AD).
  
  
  Next, you are completely incorrect when you say that poetic verses “referring to earth lasting forever...are not literal, nor refer to Jesus kingdom rule.”
  
  The fact is that EVERY prophetic OT reference to Jesus and his eternal kingdom rule is found in poetic verses. And ALL the verses speaking of God’s eternity are in “poetic” sections of the Bible (See the poetic formatting in RSV, NEB, NIV, NAB, etc.).
  
  For example, look at Ps 45:6 speaking of Christ’s eternal kingdom kingdom rule is found in poetic verses. And ALL the verses speaking of God’s eternity are in “poetic” sections of the Bible (See the poetic formatting in RSV, NEB, NIV, NAB, etc.).
  
  For example, look at Ps 45:6 speaking of Christ’s eternal kingdom rule and the corroborating quote at Heb 1:8: Christ’s throne is “forever and ever.”
  
  Then look at EVERY reference in the OT speaking of the eternity God, of God’s “eternal kingship,” God’s “eternal love” & etc. They are ALL in poetic writings! (e.g., Ps.10:16; 48:14; 52:8; Isa. 57:15).
  
  Are you really going to insist that God Himself, God’s love, or Christ’s rule are not going to literally last “forever” simply because these statements are found in poetic prophecy statements?!!!
  
  
  Yes the word translated as “earth” (ERETS) can refer to “land” or to a “region.” And your verses demonstrate places where *the context* makes those senses obvious (such as when there is a parallel like: “land and sea”. Or it is used with a possessive: “land of Israel”). At the same time the context is often just as clear that the meaning must be “the earth” for example when there is a parallel like “heaven and earth”; “sun, moon, and earth.” (cf. Girdelstone's “Synonyms of the OT.” The “BDB Hebrew Lexicon.” Vine's “Dict. Of the OT”)
  
  When the word “forever” is used with ERETS, it DEMANDS that the reference be to the “earth.” It would be ridiculously illogical to try and apply this to “land,” since you can’t have just a part of the earth exist forever! So we always have non-figurative contexts stating that the “earth” and “righteous humans” will exist to *eternity* (‘AD). Then we have further evidence with such verses as Ps. 104:5 which combines both the words “time indefinite” (OLAM) and ‘AD: “time indefinite and forever.” This phrase “forever and ever” is a common intensification and denotes an assured and absolute eternity *eternity*. This intensifying doubling of words is ONLY used of something which will literally exist to eternity! (Ps 9:5; 10:16; 21;4; 45:6,17; 48:14; 52:8; 119:44; 145:1,2,21; Dan.12:3; Mic 4:5).
  
  Further, the context of the whole Bible makes it very clear that the earth & humans on it will exist to eternity:
  
  First, a very powerful evidence that the earth will literally last forever is because it was God’s clearly stated purpose. Genesis shows that God’s purpose was to have humans cultivate and live *forever* on a paradise earth (Gen.1:28:2:15-17; Isa 45:18). They would die *only* if they were disobedient, otherwise they would have continued to live forever on earth in accord with God’s will.
  
  Next, the “poetic” promises regarding the earths eternality are confirmed as literal by Christ’s own words: At Mt. 5:5
  Christ adopted the words of Ps.37 clearly showing that the promise of an eternal earth held true. I don’t see even a hint of symbolism in Christ’s words! Christ explicitly stated that God’s will for the earth would certainly come about just as it would in heaven (Mt.6:9,10; Isa.55:10,11. c.f., Mt 19:28; Eph.1:10; Rm. 8:21).
  
  The Jews did not have any idea of inheriting a paradise in heaven. Biblical and secular history proves that the Jews up to Christ's time looked to a restored earthly paradise. So when the Jews questioned him about how to “inherit everlasting life,” they were also confirming that the promises found in Psalms were of a literal earth (Mt 19:16; Lk 10:25-27).
  
  
  Finally, Rev.21:3,4 shows that God’s original purpose would be realized. The ultimate outcome is God will be with HUMANKIND and there will be “no more death.”
  
  So Witnesses base their teaching on what God's Word *explicitly* states.
  
  No matter how hard we may search, we will find no Bible text that contradicts the fact that the earth is eternal. "
  
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  Separation of Powers

  Because it helps to distinguish the ruling GB from the rand and file to be ruled over....if they both lived in the same place, there would be revolution...ANARCHY!!!!
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  Jonathan Drake

  The point made in the rebuttal about revelation is very powerful. After everything is said and done gods tent is shown to be with mankind. Mankind doesn't live in heaven it lives on earth. All through revelation there distinctions drawn between the things in heaven and the things on earth. 

  
  

  According to to the bible story, before gods purpose was corrupted he had created man on earth with the purpose to fill it and subdue it. that is our place. Since the entire thing is about reconciling creation to its original purpose, ours would be to fill the earth and subdue it. 

  
  

  But I would also point out that the real point, according to Jesus, is to focus on being loving toward all and showing faith hope and love. So it kind of misses the mark to be distracted arguing about what will happen in the future instead of focusing on the kind of people we are - this I would submit, is exactly why religion is a farce.
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  leaving_quietly

  For example, look at Ps 45:6 speaking of Christ’s eternal kingdom kingdom rule is found in poetic verses. And ALL the verses speaking of God’s eternity are in “poetic” sections of the Bible (See the poetic formatting in RSV, NEB, NIV, NAB, etc.).
  
  For example, look at Ps 45:6 speaking of Christ’s eternal kingdom rule and the corroborating quote at Heb 1:8: Christ’s throne is “forever and ever.”

  Will Christ rule forever? Or is it that the throne of the Kingdom is forever? 1 Cor 15:24-28

  
  

  Finally, Rev.21:3,4 shows that God’s original purpose would be realized. The ultimate outcome is God will be with HUMANKIND and there will be “no more death.”
  
  So Witnesses base their teaching on what God's Word *explicitly* states.

  Here's the thing, though. The Bible doesn't explicitly state anything about a "paradise earth". Period. Nowhere to be found. What CAN be found, however, are references to a "new earth". Isa 65:17, Isa 66:22, 2 Pet 3:13, Rev 21:1 (yep, same passage as the famed Rev 21:3,4). Also, "the re-creation" in Matt 19:28.

  If anyone's teachings are based on what the Bible *explicitly* states, then we would have to conclude that there will literally be a new earth.
  

  
  
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  I_love_Jeff

  @leaving_quietly-May I use your reasoning in my notes/my counterargument??
  
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  leaving_quietly

  You may, but I want to state that I don't believe that there will literally be a new earth. At least, not at this point. My only point was that there is more explicit Biblical proof for a literal new earth than a literal paradise earth. At least the former can be found in the Bible, while the latter cannot.

  "new earth" 4      "paradise earth" 0
  

  
  BTW, I'd love to see your final notes when you're done, if you wouldn't mind sharing.
  
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  I_love_Jeff

  leaving_quietly, yes of course. This particular study may a take a while, though, due to the JW argument given above. Thank you for your patience.
  
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  leaving_quietly

  The Jews did not have any idea of inheriting a paradise in heaven. Biblical and secular history proves that the Jews up to Christ's time looked to a restored earthly paradise. So when the Jews questioned him about how to “inherit everlasting life,” they were also confirming that the promises found in Psalms were of a literal earth (Mt 19:16; Lk 10:25-27).

  No, the Jews did not have any idea of going to heaven at all. However, when Christ came, things changed.

  “The Law and the Prophets were until John. From then on, the Kingdom of God is being declared as good news, and every sort of person is pressing forward toward it. 17 Indeed, it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to go unfulfilled. - Luke 16:16, 17

  Christ offered the hope of heavenly life, and his apostles echoed it. (John 14:1-4; 2 Cor 5:1,2; Phil 3:13-21; Col 1:3-5; 1 Pet 1:4)

  Christians did not have the hope of paradise earth. Consider this: if they did, wouldn't at least ONE of them have spoken about it? But not a single one did. There isn't a single expression from Peter, Paul, James or John about a paradise earth. Of course, a paradise earth WOULD be good news, wouldn't it? If that were the case, then why did Paul say what he said at Gal 1:6-8? Especially verses 8 and 9. Even an ANGEL would be cursed if a DIFFERENT good news were declared. Something serious to think about.

  In addition, Ephesians 4:4 talks about "the one hope", not "two distinct hopes". (w13 12/15 p. 25 par. 13)

  The only way around the passages above is to say that the Greek Scriptures were written primarily for the anointed. (w08 1/15 p. 22 par. 11) That is a whole other discussion, and has all the markings of 'shutting up the Kingdom of the heavens.' (Matt 23:13)
  

  
  
  
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  I_love_Jeff

  Argument at hand with a JW:

  CLARIFYING ----BAR-I never mentioned that Psalms 104:5, Psalms 78:69, and Ecclesiastes 1:2-4 referring to “poetic Promised Land”. The question addresses certain passages in the Wisdom Literature used by Jehovah’s Witnesses to prove there will be a Paradise Earth without end.

  Psalms 37:11, 29- strongly suggests the Promised Land (described in your Watchtower Library). The term “Forever”, as mentioned in these passages: Psalms 104:5, Psalms 78:69, and Ecclesiastes 1:2-4, do not necessarily imply Earth as being indefinite. Once again, what I AM referring to in the 2 part question as the “poetic Promised Land”, is discussed in your own Watchtower Library software 2014: Psalm 37:11, 29

  Allow me to reiterate:

  “‘E´rets can refer to a distinct region or to the territory of a nation, such as “the land of Shinar” or “the land of Egypt.”—Genesis 10:10, 11; 21:21; Psalm 78:12; Jeremiah 25:20.
  So Psalm 37:11, 29 might indicate that the Israelites could have been and should have been permanent occupants of the Promised Land. In accord with God’s covenant with Abraham, they could have remained in that territory that God gave them, with generation after generation enjoying his blessings there.” Watchtower 1986 Jan 1 p.31