Blood = Organ Transplant Awake! '99 (page 4)

Had Enough

Hi again hawkaw:

(I was preparing this answer right after you posted this morning, but got called away before I could finish it. So I'll just be adding my .02 to what's already been said.)

Oh yes, I caught that phrase.

Today you can DONATE blood if it is used to provide acceptable fractions! Yes, you read me correctly. They just don't tell you about it!

And its worth repeating again, and again, and again. How many active JWs know this I wonder.

And also:

Mark my words: They KNOW there is no absolute ban on blood. The policy has been changing under your nose and will continue to change....they are doing it glacial speed so as not "to harm the spirituality of the brothers with further disillusionment" like the "generation" teaching.

And yet some of those who have not skimmed over the "fraction allowment", still defend the change as "its a matter of conscience whether you take it or not, and still hold onto the scripture as 'law'. It's not an 'absolute'", yet they cannot explain why, if the bible is God's word, AND the WTS is directed by God's spirit AND the bible says "abstain...from blood", why on earth would God be allowing humans to take fractions AND to DONATE blood AND to accept the product 'hemopure' (sp?) from cow's blood for crying out loud?? Was not the animals' blood to be poured out on the ground "to signify the sanctity of life represented by the blood...etc."

They can't explain it because nothing about it makes sense.

Like 'waiting' said...don't we feel like the fools for allowing ourselves to be so asleep and complaisant..."yup, yup, whatever you say master."

We all have so much gratitude for the caring way you folks have been informing us all about what you have uncovered about this blood issue. This was one subject I would never have even thought about as being wrong after I left the org.

hillary_step

Hello Max

You said:

What the GB does is come to a policy position--consensus. THEN they look for any quotation that MIGHT LOOK LIKE it supports their case.

This simple statement powerfully illustrates the WTS policy when it comes to research. It is a conclusion driven process.

To illustrate, a number of years ago in a pensive moment a senior member of Writing described his research to me, as 'delving through piles of manure to find the pearl'. When I asked what to him was the pearl, he looked at me in puzzlement and replied 'well, anything that underpins our teachings obviously'.

Thank you for making this very important point Max - HS

Had Enough

Hello again Maximus:

Regarding your statement:

Today you can DONATE blood if it is used to provide acceptable fractions

I saw a reference to your statement in another thread. It mentioned JWs being allowed to donate their own blood for storage to be used by that one personally as fractions.

Does the "DONATE" refer to JWs being allowed to donate their own blood to store for themselves for their own fractional use, or does your statement mean it can be for use by others too?

Had Enough

OK disregard my last question. I went braindead for a minute.

I realize now its for any users and that JWs can store it for themselves because they are now allowed to take fractions. duh - sorry

Maximus

Storage? Who said anything about storage? Don't I have to keep blood in a circuit? And if I keep it in a circuit, how can I fractionate it? How can I fractionate it if I don't store it?

Wait a minute, how was the cow's blood kept in circuit to get the hemoglobin for Hemopure?

I'm not asking a real or even a rhetorical question; there's no answer. Trying to wrap your cerebrum around this policy is mind-numbing, isn't it?

I just want to illustrate a simple point: the policy is inconsistent and unreasonable to begin with, and if you think you have one aspect figured out it won't jibe with something else. It is now far afield of Acts 15 or Biblical principle. Reasonable people know that, even at the top rung of the hierarchy.

Maximus

hawkaw

And Maximus, reasonable people know they are allowing the needless death of little children who have sickel cell amenia, cancer and major traumas.

God help them if the parents of these kids ever figure it out.

hawk (Go look at those pictures on http://www.ajwrb.org)

SixofNine

Today you can DONATE blood if it is used to provide acceptable fractions!

I'm curious as to where or when that has ever been "officially" expressed? Is that now the answer one will get if they phone the service desk?

hawkaw

6 of 9

I urge you to call.

Its much like when Factor VIII and Factor IX in 1975 was approved, conscience permiting of course.

Why not write them as well.

hawk

philo

Waiting,

As I see it, all WT approved references to blood transfusions as organ transplants can mean one or more of three things:

1. they are keeping their options open so that BT can become a 'matter of conscience' if/when 'the need is great.'

2. there is interdepartmental manoevering and conflict about BT

3. or, they are muddling along as normal, to give the appearance to uncritical JWs, or those with reservations, that serious thinking is being done on the issue.

Addition: I've just read all the above quality material, and feel a bit daft for having chipped in. But it's too late, so I'll just highlight Maximus' point as number...

4.

I've stated it elsewhere and I will state it again here: It is extremely important for the Legal Department to have conflicting stuff in the publications. Organ transplant, not a transplant. Take this, not that. Individual vs. weak conscience vs. whatever. The fuzzier the better, because if a church parishioner is confused about church policy, that means the policy is individualistic and not communal. That mitigates, protects against liability! And what it's all about today, is preservation of the organization.

philo

Had Enough

Well I'm certainly glad Maximus asked those rhetorical questions: "Don't I have to keep blood in a circuit? And if I keep it in a circuit, how can I fractionate it? How can I fractionate it if I don't store it?

Wait a minute, how was the cow's blood kept in circuit to get the hemoglobin for Hemopure?

Trying to wrap your cerebrum around this policy is mind-numbing".

I was beginning to think I was totally missing the point as to: Its OK to take fractions... has to mean storing blood. Its OK to donate blood for fractions....means storing blood. Yet the WTS says No to your own storing blood...it must be kept in circuit. Whew! I'm glad to know it sounds confusing to others too.

I never could understand why, if the Bible says "to abstain....from blood", was it ever made OK to take fractions, and why was treatment allowed for hemophiliacs but not for other life-threatening diseases?

If they are slipping in these little changes over time, to try to save face at the inevitable repercussions from JWs who have suffered a loss of a child and other loved ones, eventually its got to catch up with them. Surely the JWs will catch on, won't they?

Blood = Organ Transplant Awake! '99

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