Just got something ... thought it might help

by RobertPalmer 20 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • RobertPalmer
    RobertPalmer

    Sorry about the misspelling of the word lord it is Kurios. Here is a direct translation word for word for the passage.

    Jesus who in his unchangeable position being in very form and appearance God, who at no time thought it Robbery to be equal in quality or quantity to God. Humbled himself ?

    It is because of this mixed position, ? that latter on it says to him every knee should bow, to the name of Jesus, because he has and always will remain God.

    Reasoning below:

    Iesous (Jesus) Hos (who, which, what, that) En (in, by, with etc) Morphe (form 3) Theos (God) Huparcho (been 2, being 9, belonging 1, exist 1, existed 1, gone 1, live 1, owned 1, possess 1, possessions 11, private means 1, property 1) Ou (not) Harpagmos (seize, robbery) Hegeomai (thought, lead) Einai (to be, to exist, to happen, to be present) Isos (equal, in quantity or quality) Theos (God)

    In the order the words appear in the Greek text it reads:

    Word for word Translation:

    Jesus .. who .. in the fixed .. form ? of God ? possessing ? not ? robbery .. thought ? equality ? God

    It could be split like this:

    Jesus .. who .. in the fixed .. form ? of God ? possessing

    not ? robbery .. thought ? equality ? God

    Or everyday English:

    Jesus who in his unchangeable position being in very form and appearance God, who at no time thought it Robbery to be equal in quality or quantity to God. Humbled himself ?

    It is because of this mixed position, ? that latter on it says to him every knee should bow, to the name of Jesus, because he has and always will remain God.

    Hos: who, which, what, that

    another* 8, any 1, because* 7, deeds* 1, just 1, just* 1, once* 1, one 11, one* 6, other 2, others* 2, same 2, since* 3, so 1, some 7, some* 8, someone 1, such 1, there 1, these 6, these things 3, thing 1, things 4, third 1, this 22, this is what 1, those whom 1, until* 1, what 101, what* 2, whatever 5, whatever* 28, when 9, when* 3, where 1, where* 2, which 404, while* 3, who 158, whoever 4, whoever* 51, whom 218, whomever* 6, whose 38, why* 3

    En: a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state)

    Morphe:

    1. the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision
    2. external appearance

    form 3

    Huparcho :

    1. to begin below, to make a beginning

      1. to begin
    1. to come forth, hence to be there, be ready, be at hand
    2. to be
    3. to begin below, to make a beginning
      1. to begin
    4. to come forth, hence to be there, be ready, be at hand
    5. to be

    been 2, being 9, belonging 1, exist 1, existed 1, gone 1, live 1, owned 1, possess 1, possessions 11, private means 1, property 1

    Ou: no, not; in direct questions expecting an affirmative answer

    all* 1, any the less 2, before* 1, cannot 1, cannot* 49, certainly* 1, ever* 3, except 1, failed 1, few* 1, great* 1, greatly* 1, impossible* 1, incessantly* 1, kept...a virgin* 1, kept right* 1, long* 1, neither 2, neither* 3, never 6, never* 17, no 148, no* 22, none 4, none* 3, nor 3, nothing 8, nothing* 13, nowhere* 2, number 1, number* 2, only* 5, rather 2, rather than 1, refrain 1, refused* 1, than* 2, unable* 6, unaware* 3, unwilling* 12, unworthy* 1, virgin* 1, without 2, without* 6

    Harpagmos:

    1. the act of seizing, robbery

    2. a thing seized or to be seized

    1. booty to deem anything a prize
    2. a thing to be seized upon or to be held fast, retained

    Hegeomai :

    1to lead

      1. to go before
      2. to be a leader
        1. to rule, command
        2. to have authority over
        3. a prince, of regal power, governor, viceroy, chief, leading as respects influence, controlling in counsel, overseers or leaders of the churches
        4. used of any kind of leader, chief, commander
        5. the leader in speech, chief, spokesman
    1. to consider, deem, account, think

    Einai (to be, to exist, to happen, to be present)

    consistent 2, equal 3, equality 1, same 2

    Theos God, gods

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    nonotanotherfuckingtrinitarianthreadiamnotgoingtobedrawninandcommenthearoisrael

    thelordourgodisnotonegodbutthreinone

  • euripides
    euripides

    Can you prove who wrote "phillippians" when and why?

    I can't "prove" anything, other than in a closed system of logic. I can tell you what scholars think, and then give my opinion. Most contemporary scholars affirm Paul's authorship, but recognize use of pre-Pauline traditional materials, such as in this hymn in Philippians 2. I tend to agree with this majority viewpoint. The text we are looking at may have been glossed further, but substantial glossing is not likely.

    The purpose of the letter seems to be one of friendship and exploring the ancient idea of friendship/fellowship. Paul (or the author) clearly had a relationship with the Philippian congregation.

    Euripides

  • BrendaCloutier
    BrendaCloutier

    Interesting that.

    I once explained the Triune nature of God to a recent Catholic convert who was having problems with understanding the trinity. This passage supports my explanation:

    Using the YinYang symbol, you have one hand God the Father, the other hand God the Son (Jesus). Both equal, yet as different as night and day. When you put your hands together as the YinYang, you merge, yet don't merge, Father and Son. The result is the Holy Spirit - the direct force, a power greater than the sum total of it's parts.

    A word of note, Humility is not kowtowing, or bowing, or lowering of one's self. It is being right sized. Knowing who you are, strengths and weaknesses, and knowing your place in the greater schema.

    Brenda

    Peace begins with me

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    So Mary got pregnant from the clap?


  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    For a churchgoer as Robert Palmer introduces himself, the worst problem in Philippians 2:5ff is not how divine but how human Christos Ièsous was:

    Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus,
    who, though he was in the form (morphè) of God,
    did not regard equality with God
    as something to be exploited,
    but emptied himself,
    taking the form (morphè) of a slave,
    being born in human likeness (en homoiômati anthrôpôn).
    And being found in human form (skhèmati eurètheis hôs anthrôpos),
    he humbled himself
    and became obedient to the point of death--
    even death on a cross.
    Therefore God also highly exalted him
    and gave him the name
    that is above every name,
    so that at the name of Jesus
    every knee should bend,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    and every tongue should confess
    that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father.

    If a correct reading of the Greek text can avoid arianism, it won't avoid docetism imho. Which is confirmed by Romans 8:3:

    by sending his own Son in the likeness (en homoiômati) of sinful flesh, and to deal with sin, he condemned sin in the flesh.

    What is described in those texts is not a man named Jesus, but a heavenly "Christ Jesus" taking a human appearance.

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    and became obedient to the point of death--

    Obedient to who - if he was god - which he obviously was not

  • outbutnotdown
    outbutnotdown

    (My head is spinning) lol

    IF Jesus existed and his writings and writings of people that followed him are accurate, is it not possible that he meant he was God in the sense that we are all God?

    Before people accuse me of not being humble, was his ENTIRE story/life not meant to help humans realize that we are all connected by the same sort of spirit, so be nice to your neighbour because your neighbour is a part of your spirit, just as the rest of the beings in the universe are?

    Of course I am not a scholar, though, so I may have no freakin' idea what I am talking about.

    Brad

  • momof5
    momof5

    Narkissos,

    So if Jesus was the APPEARANCE of a human and the scripture uses the word FORM, then he also had the APPEARANCE of GOD since the word form is used there also?

    Just a thought, momof5

  • JustTickledPink
    JustTickledPink

    Hey I work with a guy named Jesus. He's pretty cool.

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