by truthseeker 16 Replies latest jw friends
Excellent topic illustrating just how flawed the WTB&TS theology is.
The whole Great Crowd/144,000 issue is based on the completely arbitary views of Rutherford. Ask any witness to prove from the Bible that the other sheep of John's gospel are the same as the Great Crowd of Revelation and they will be stumped - there is absolutely no Biblical link at all. Basically, witnesses have to accept this on blind faith (in the society) alone.
Eyeslice
No one can tell the actual number, but for sure there are hundred of thousands of Christians that died in the first century for Christ, not to mention also those who died from natural courses.
That means the number should be millions.
The number 144.000 is symbolical,and the book of Revelation is a symbolic book. The ignorance of the GB and the fact that they don't know Greek the language that the New Testament was written, has led them to be the most rediculous religion group in the world today.
Revelation chapter 19 verse 1 clearly says: And I heart the voice of a great multitude in HEAVEN.
So they are in heaven and NO one can challenge this!!!
justhuman--- That is argumentative as to the meaning of the passage . The point that jesus made was that earth will be in heaven , in his famous prayer jesus says ," may your will take place on earth as it is in heaven." So technically all earthlings that survive the great tribulation and into the kingdom are going to live in heaven on earth under the direct rulership of God and there will be no need for man made government ever. The earth will be restored to a paradise and the holy city of new jerusalem will descend from heaven and all mankind will be given a chance to worship there . I think the problem is people just don't read all of revelation so conclude as you have . The phenomena known as a rapture is more likely the descending kingdom than about people being beamed up to heaven to escape the great tribulation , it is clear that people have to survive the tribulation to enter the kingdom of the heavens .
Thanks to all who provided the information in this thread. I have tried to check out this point for ages without a lot of success.
I should have known. Just ask Blondie!
Okay, so we know that the GB has interpreted Jesus's words about "I have other sheep ... and they shall become one flock...." to mean the 144,000 with the heavenly hope and the "other sheep" to mean those with the earthly hope.
But bearing in mind the time at which Jesus said this and the audience to whom He was speaking, namely, the Jews - is it not possible that what Jesus actually had in mind was that the "other sheep" referred to the Gentiles (see also Romans 11:25) and therefore at a future time the Jews and the Gentiles would become "one flock" ?
William Wallace,
Welcome! (Brave choice of name )
is it not possible that what Jesus actually had in mind was that the "other sheep" referred to the Gentiles
That seems to be a reasonable understanding of Jesus' words.
therefore at a future time the Jews and the Gentiles would become "one flock" ?
That would logically have occurred at 36CE when, according to WT chronology, Cornelius was converted and Christianity was opened to all Gentiles.
Regards,
Ken
Revelation does not say that only 144,000 would go to heaven. This is what the Watchtower says
Spot on! How hard it is for a dub to tell the difference!
