sheep and goats

by kj 11 Replies latest jw friends

kj

I've been "studying" with a nice JW lady, we've been discussing the "What God Requires" booklet. We were reading about how very soon, Jesus was going to start separating the sheep from the goats. I jumped right on that, asking, "So this is a future event, right?" She had to do a double take, and say, "Yes, that is right." I know at one point, that the WT taught that the separating work was being done now. When did they change it to a future event? Can anybody tell me what issue of the WT it is in? Thanks.
kj
kwintestal

*** w51 5/1 p. 287 Questions from Readers ***
) The parable of the sheep and goats, now in course of fulfillment, shows that at Armageddon the goats "depart into everlasting cutting-off", thereby indicating the fate of those destroyed in all three cases.
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w53 2/15 p. 122 When Will God?s Kingdom Come? ***
Right now Jehovah?s King, Christ Jesus, is on the throne and he is separating the people, and he does this by the preaching of the gospel of the Kingdom.
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w60 1/15 p. 54 This Is a Time of Judgment ***
BEGINNING
OF LAST DAYS
The time for this judging of the nations, as you will note, was set for the last days when Christ would be enthroned in Kingdom glory. It could not take place after the worldly system of things has been destroyed by heavenly forces, as Christ could not then separate the people as sheep are separated from goats. His enthronement in Kingdom power at his second presence would have to be at a time when the wicked still exist, a time before their destruction. This was foretold at Psalm 110, verses one and two, where Christ, David?s Lord, is commanded: "Go subduing in the midst of your enemies."
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w98 9/15 p. 17 Waiting in "Eager Expectation" ***
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In the near future, Christ will judge people of the nations on the basis of how they have acted toward his brothers yet on earth.
A few things I could find on it.
Kwin
Satanus

The big 'clarification' came in 1995:
*** w95 10/15 p. 19 How Will You Stand Before the Judgment Seat? ***
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We have long felt that the parable depicted Jesus? sitting down as King in 1914 and since then making judgments?everlasting life for people proving to be like sheep, permanent death for the goats. But a reconsideration of the parable points to an adjusted understanding of its timing and what it illustrates. This refinement reinforces the importance of our preaching work and the significance of people?s response.
*** w95 10/15 p. 22 How Will You Stand Before the Judgment Seat? ***
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Does this parable apply when Jesus sat down in kingly power in 1914, as we have long understood? Well, Matthew 25:34 does speak of him as King, so the parable logically finds application since Jesus became King in 1914. But what judging did he do soon thereafter? It was not a judging of "all the nations." Rather, he turned his attention to those claiming to make up "the house of God." (1 Peter 4:17) In line with Malachi 3:1-3, Jesus, as Jehovah?s messenger, judicially inspected the anointed Christians remaining on earth. It was also time for judicial sentence on Christendom, who falsely claimed to be "the house of God." (Revelation 17:1, 2; 18:4-8) Yet nothing indicates that at that time, or for that matter since, Jesus sat to judge people of all the nations finally as sheep or goats.
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w95 10/15 p. 23 How Will You Stand Before the Judgment Seat? ***
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Understanding the parable of the sheep and the goats in this way indicates that the rendering of judgment on the sheep and the goats is future. It will take place after "the tribulation" mentioned at Matthew 24:29, 30 breaks out and the Son of man ?arrives in his glory.? (Compare Mark 13:24-26.) Then, with the entire wicked system at its end, Jesus will hold court and render and execute judgment.?John 5:30; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.
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This clarifies our understanding of the timing of Jesus? parable,
kj

Thank you! That will be very helpful for my next "study" session.
kj
kj

One more question, why the change in understanding? Did it tie in with the generation change?
kj
Satanus

Yes. In 1995 the generation doctrine was changed as well. It's not the 1914 generation anymore, that will see armageddon. It any generation that is there when it comes. Some dubs still have not realised that the old rug is gone
S
Satanus

Here are the quotes:
"Eager to see the end of this evil system, Jehovah's people have at times speculated about the time when the "great tribulation" would break out, even tying this to calculations of what is the lifetime of a generation since 1914. However, we bring a heart of wisdom in," not by speculating about how many years or days makeup a generation, but by thinking about how we "count our days" in bringing joyful praise to Jehovah." (Watchtower 11/1 1995 page 18)
"Does our more precise viewpoint on "this generation" mean that Armageddon is further away than we had thought? Not at all! Though we at no time have known the "day and hour," Jehovah God has always known it, and he does not change." (page 20)
"Therefore, in the final fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy today, "this generation" apparently refers to the peoples of earth who see the sign of Christ's presence but fail to mend their ways." (page 19)
Up until this mag, the awake had the following masthead on each issue:
"Why AWAKE! Is Published Awake! is published for the enlightenment of the entire family. It shows how to cope with today's problems. It reports the news, tells about people in many lands, examines religion and science. But it does more. It probes beneath the surface and points to the real meaning behind current events, yet it always stays politically neutral and does not exalt one race above another. Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away."
kj

Thanks for all of your help!
kj
gumby

Damn SS....you've become another blondie!!!
We have long felt that the parable depicted Jesus? sitting down as King in 1914 and since then making judgments?everlasting life for people proving to be like sheep, permanent death for the goats. But a reconsideration of the parable points to an adjusted understanding of its timing and what it illustrates. This refinement reinforces the importance of our preaching work and the significance of people?s response.
A reconsideration? You mean....Jesus re-considers when he directs The Faithfull Slave entrusted with all his belongings? You mean, Jehovah adjusts things after he has told them something? Why would an all knowing god adjust what he has already directed? Does he make mistakes?
*** w95 10/15 p. 22 How Will You Stand Before the Judgment Seat? ***
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...but what judging did he do soon thereafter? It was not a judging of "all the nations." Rather, he turned his attention to those claiming to make up "the house of God." (1 Peter 4:17) In line with Malachi 3:1-3, Jesus, as Jehovah?s messenger, judicially inspected the anointed Christians remaining on earth. It was also time for judicial sentence on Christendom, who falsely claimed to be "the house of God." (Revelation 17:1, 2; 18:4-8) Yet nothing indicates that at that time, or for that matter since, Jesus sat to judge people of all the nations finally as sheep or goats.
What idiots! Look at the bold type above. There are "those who claim to make up the house of god" ...and "Christendom". Who IS Christendom? The buildings? Isn't christendom the exact same thing as people who claim to be "the house of god"? Why the distinction? LIke I said.....idiots.
Gumby
Gordy

So if Jesus is going to be separating the Sheep and the Goats in the future.
Then how can there be a "little flock of sheep" (the anointed) now?

sheep and goats

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