Already it starts.

by Fleur 24 Replies latest jw friends

  • Fleur

    Wow. After another mostly sleepless night, your posts amaze me. Every one of them has something in it for me to learn from, and I truly thank each of you for responding with your experiences and validating the hell I am going through. It means more than you can imagine.

    Xandria, that post is so thorough and so thoughtful and kind I don't know how to thank you. I'm going to print it out and keep it where I can see it, likely even carry a copy in my purse. Thank you seems insufficient because I know you must've put a lot of time into your response, all I can say is that it is really helping me, and I'm grateful.

    Sorry I forget who it was (no coffee yet) who suggested the lantern on the water, that sounds so beautiful. I am definitely going to have to look into doing something significant in my own way.

    (sort of JW) sibling #2 the one who got yelled at by (extremely JW) sibling #1 yesterday echoed immediately my worries about what was going to happen to Grandma's remains. I want to be sure that she is properly laid to rest, my mother is saying "It doesn't matter what happens to her ashes, Jehovah doesn't need them to make her again." ! I was horrified to think that they may actually just throw them away! Part of my panic attacks the past few days is not knowing where she is. I know she's not in that body anymore, regardless if there is life after death I know she's not feeling pain or anything...I just have to know where she is and what will be done.

    I enlisted the help of (not JW) BIL to call the JW family and ask what is going to be done with her ashes. Relatives seemed not to have a clue what to do with them, he told me, and he suggested that I call someone and express my wish that she be scattered by Grandfather's grave which is very close to my home. That would mean so much because then I could go there, tend the site (JW family has never been back to the grave since he was buried more than 20 years ago!)

    Of course, no one has returned my phone call.

    Which brings me to a question, does anyone know specifically why JW's don't believe in visiting graves? Someone asked me and I can't seem to remember if there was a specific command not to do it, if they consider it ancestor worship or what, so if anyone has a reference, could you share it please?

    Balsam, I am very grateful to my friend for her offer (she is an ex-jw too) but she knows my entire family very well, and she doesn't care who says what she doesn't want me to walk in there without her and my husband to support me, at least. She's a gem.

    Part of me wants to believe so much that Grandma is now with Grandpa somewhere safe and happy and that they're with the babies that I lost to miscarriage (the ones that elders told me had "no future in the eyes of God." That idea brings me the most comfort but somehow it feels like I'm trying to convince myself of a fairytale. I don't get any comfort from the resurrection either because of all the jw baggage that accompanies it; I just don't want to accept that as powerful a force for good as my Grandmother was (is?) that her light could just go out.

    I know that my grandmother was very bothered by the relatives hardline attitude on shunning me, even in times of family emergency and illness. She knew what my first marriage was like, and I know that she worried a lot less about me with my second husband because she knew I was happy with him. She wanted to convert him too but she was never, ever pushy and she loved him as he was.

    The more I think about her, the more I think that if there is such a thing as a true Christian, she was it. She was the kind of Christian that Jesus wanted people to be.

    Thank you again for listening...


  • shotgun


    I enlisted the help of (not JW) BIL to call the JW family and ask what is going to be done with her ashes. Relatives seemed not to have a clue what to do with them, he told me, and he suggested that I call someone and express my wish that she be scattered by Grandfather's grave which is very close to my home. That would mean so much because then I could go there,

    Seems like a fantastic idea to me.

    I know that my grandmother was very bothered by the relatives hardline attitude on shunning me, even in times of family emergency and illness

    On the thought from your family that your Grandma's last wish was for you to be mentioned before she was the only one to treat you with unconditional love. You mention in this last statement how she was bothered by their shunning practise of seems she really only wanted what was best for you even if it wasn't exactly what she would have ultimately hoped for..which would be a return to the Org.

    No matter what your family tells you I think you know deep inside that she wanted you to be happy first and foremost and would not have wanted you to return solely for her and then be unhappy.

    You can make it through this Fleur, you have a husband that backs you every step of the way which has been noted in this and several other past threads along with many on the forum who empathize and feel the pain and confusion in your posts on losing your Grandma.


  • Mulan


    Please don't let them get to you this way. It isn't so much what they are doing and saying, as it is your own grief.

    Try to think of it like this. If your grandma is with your grandpa and your babies somewhere now, she knows the real truth, doesn't she? So their threats are meaningless, she wouldn't want you reinstated. Talk to her as if she is still here.

    If she is without thought, as the JW's believe, then there is nothing they can hold over you. Her "thoughts have perished". What can you do for someone like that?

    I tried to post on your other thread the other day and it disappeared as I was sending it.

    I am so sorry you are going through such a sad time. I wouldn't set foot in a KH if you paid me, no matter who had died. I would have my own service for her, if I were you. It will be just as satisfying and you won't have to listen to the JW crap. Just do it in your living room.

  • Sassy


    I am sorry all this is coming down on you. I guess it is to be expected, they feel now is a good time to pull you back in... not to mention, they have less guilt to talk to you during this 'emergency' crisis.. so why not make use of that opportune moment..

    as far as the relative talking about not going if you go to the memorial service.. screw it.. that is her problem not yours. Personally if my mom dies, I am not sure if I can honestly handle going into a KH (and I am not dfd or da'd), but being out and knowing the truth about them, would make it difficult for me to go there. To face them and all their hypocrasy.. to hear the talks about life on earth and living forever and our loved ones being resurrected to it.. I think emotionally it would bring me to overload.. so even for mom.. I am not sure I can do it.. I'd be afraid of having an anxiety attack or something.. not to mention feeling all of their eyes on me condemning me for walking away.. I think I would try to find closure in another way..

    however if I needed that closure there, I would not let someone elses need to shun me, stop me from being there..

    we have your back any way we can.. just let us know..

  • Jankyn

    oops...double post...see below

  • Jankyn

    Dear Essie,

    We've talked before about how it is that we know exactly what to expect from our demented JW families, and yet we're still surprised when that's what they do. I feel for you. And I expect that I have some of the same coming at me soon, as my dad is quite ill.

    I try to hold on to my resolve to treat them as I would sick people. If they had cancer, I'd really try to be compassionate. They do--they have a cancer of the spirit that makes grace and compassion impossible. I want to be healed, so I keep trying to act better than I feel.

    And then I cry.

    You are in my heart.



  • Fleur

    ((((((((((((((((Sassy)))))))))))))))) thank you, knowing that someone is in my corner (lots of someones here!) helps me to feel so much less alone.

    ((((((((((Jankyn)))))))))) I'm so sorry to hear about your Dad's illness. I so hope things go better with your family than they are going with mine.

    Just spoke briefly to sibling 2 on the phone and they are so upset they decided they aren't having anything to do with any family proceedings whatever they are. they need for their own blood pressure's sake to make peace with grandma's passing on their own, I applauded them for doing what is best for them and said I totally understood.

    I had what is either a moment of clarity this morning or just a bounce-back reaction, only time will tell but suddenly I had a voice inside me tell me to steer clear of any interaction with my family whatsoever. I know how they're going to behave. It's not like if I show up at the memorial they're suddenly going to stop pretending I'm invisible. I'm asking myself how that will help me to heal. I don't think it will, and I don't think that my Grandmother would want me to put myself in a position where I would be hurt.

    Strike that, I KNOW she wouldn't. When I was at a family funeral a couple years ago (extended relative) my grandma literally dragged my uncle over to meet my husband. Uncle gave me daggers with his eyes as he limply shook my husband's extended hand. Grandma was very, very distressed over it.

    Mom told me yesterday that Grandma cried at my cousin's wedding (last single one) said that was three I'd missed and she didn't know how they justified the guest list because my aunt's unbaptized (grown adult, all raised to know the religion like she was) who are drug addicts, drinkers, promiscuous with kids from a bunch of different partners etc. were at the wedding but they excluded me even from just the ceremony. She was bothered by it even the last time I talked to her.

    I don't believe she would want me to put myself into a place that is only going to hurt more. I just don't know. I'll be curious to see what they all do in the next few weeks. The family is pretty divided up even among the JW's because of the way the situation was with relatives refusing to move her to a better hospital, etc that led to her death to begin with. So it's going to be ugly, period.

    thanks again for listening, and especially for thinking of me.



  • Ghosthunter


    I feel your pain.

    My grandmother died 4 1/2 years ago and I loved her dearly. She was the only one of my JW family that did not shun me after I was DF'd. In fact, she stopped going to the KH several years before her dementia really set in. In my heart, I think she felt as if she had enough.

    The day I found out that she had died, I lost it. My mom called me and told me that I didn't "have" to come to the funeral, but didn't tell me I couldn't come, either. I went, with my husband and sons in tow, and faced up to those awful people. She was MY gramma and I'll be damned if any of THOSE people were going to tell me I didn't belong there.

    I hope she finds the life she deserved on the other side, and I hope your grandmother does, too.


  • Scully

    Dear Essie:

    I couldn't go to my grandma's funeral, so I decided to honour her memory by planting a rose bush in a special spot of my garden. Since then, I've planted other rose bushes in memory of my other grandma and my mother in law. I can go there whenever I want to contemplate on how they touched my life. I don't need anyone's permission to be there, and I don't have to share this spot with anyone else or tell anyone why this little obscure corner of my garden has three lovely rose bushes there. No JW in the world can take this special place away from me, my grandmas and my mother in law.

    You don't need to suffer the abuse of your JW relatives in order to honour your grandma's memory. And really, your grandma will not be remembered during that JW-Infomercial for the whole and wonderful person she was - just the part that spent her entire life in servitude to (and now martyred to) the JWs. You can remember your grandma and mourn her in any way you want. I've decided to try my hand at a special and increasingly rare needle craft that my MIL used to do so that I can make a picture frame for a photo of her in each of my children's family photo albums.

    It isn't the single impersonal gathering with people who feel duty-bound to abuse you that honours your grandma's memory... it's how you keep her spirit alive and pass her goodness on to your own children and grandchildren that honours her memory.

    Love, Scully

  • codeblue

    When I saw the topic of your new thread, I had a feeling it was about the JW relatives and their lack of love.

    I have to agree, the usual JW funeral or memorial service is NOT about honoring the deceased or making the survivor/relative feel is a pr talk about the WTBS and gaining new members.

    The worst funeral I went to was when my mil died. My ex husband had several brothers and sisters that weren't JW's (sure most of them studied, but it wasn't for them). The talk was all about how IF those unbaptized members wanted to see their mother in the resurrection, what they had to do to make sure they were there.

    I was so then husband (now ex) was furious at that brother.

    Where is the love?

    I am so sorry you are experiencing this...shame on your JW relatives for not noticing it is your loss too and that you need encouragment!!!

    Do what your heart motivates you to do during this's about you and your relationship you had with the grandmother you loved so dearly.

    Sending you many hugs during this difficult time,


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