My Story

by Commie Chris 27 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Commie Chris
    Commie Chris

    I’ve been lurking hear for a few weeks. Here’s my story:

    I was raised in a Catholic family in Toronto and went to Catholic schools until Grade 9 (age 13). I left the RC church at age 12 and have never regretted my decision. For most of my life I considered myself an agnostic, and continued my search for a religion worth being part of. At age 30, I gave the JWs a chance and accepted a Bible study. I was skeptical but open-minded. At age 33, I was baptized, despite the fact that I still had serious reservations about many doctrines. I had come to believe that God probably exists, that the Bible is probably from God, and that the JWs are probably his earthly organization. I found certain doctrines (eg. 1914, the flood, the rejection of evolution etc…) just plain silly, but I also felt that these doctrines were inconsequential. I was told that as long as I kept my ideas on these doctrines to myself, or humbly discussed them only with elders who could “educate” me, I could be a JW in good standing. I humbly accepted and refrained from discussing my “independent” ideas with anyone other than elders.

    Soon after I was baptized, I began dating a lovely sister from a different congregation. She had also just recently been baptized. After dating for about a year, we decided to get married. We decided on a short engagement (2 months) and a small ceremony. Around this time we also began sleeping together. Aware of the WTS’s teachings on pre-marital sex, and feeling somewhat guilty, although not entirely convinced that we had done anything truly immoral, we went to the Elders and confessed. She went to the elders of her congregation, I went to mine.

    My fiancé (now my wife) was a good friend of the PO and his wife. She met with a Judicial Committee in her congregation and was promptly told that she would be reproved - end of story for her. The 3 elders on my JC, however, began my “hearing” by telling me that they had always known that I would be trouble because I harboured independent thoughts. The meeting was dominated by one “hard-line” elder who barely knew me, yet lectured me on how my thinking had been “corrupted by higher education” (I am a lawyer) and essentially told me that they would not believe anything coming from my lips. The other 2, more moderate elders, barely said a word. I was told that they had heard “rumours” that I was dating several sisters at the same time. Further, I was accused of only coming forward to confess to them because I thought that my fiance might be pregnant (not true).

    I was shocked by the accusations and the elders’ attitude (especially the hard-liner) since I had always been humble and had never suggested to anyone that I thought my higher education made me smarter or better than anyone else in the congregation. I asked them to tell me why they doubted my humility. No answer. I also asked them to be specific about the “rumours” so that I could respond to them. No answer. I then asked them if I could bring my fiancé to speak to them as a witness on my behalf since she could confirm that our confessions were not motivated by any fear that she might be pregnant. I was told that they had no need to hear from her.

    Once the elders had finished their tirade against me, I told them that I was aware of the Society’s teaching on pre-marital sex, but that I was not sure whether pre-marital sex between an engaged couple was really “fornication”. I pointed out that I had tried to find some independent material to support the Society’s broad definition of acts included in porneia, but could not. I told them that I had no problem in seeing adultery, rape, child molesting, and possibly even promiscuity by unmarried people as being serious sins, but that it seemed illogical, and unsupported by any independent (non-Society) scriptural research that I could find that the prohibition on porneia included that kind of thing that my fiance and I had done. I did not lecture the elders, I merely pointed out that I had doubts about the Society’s teaching on this point and was not convinced that I had done anything seriously wrong in God’s eyes. I told them that I could not honestly say that I was repentant unless they could show me that the Bible does in fact consider pre-marital sex between consenting, loving adults as being a serious sin, in the same category as adultery. I was I was humble, and asked them to show me where I was wrong and I assured them, in all honesty, that I would accept God’s word on the subject and would be sincerely repentant if only they could explain this to me.

    Instead, they just sighed and shook their heads, but said nothing. After a pause, the hard-line elder pounded his fist on the table and angrily told me that my questions were just further proof that I was an unrepentant “trouble-maker” who would surely poison the whole congregation. For the good of the congregation, I had to be disfellowshipped. I was confused. I asked whether I was being df’d because I was an unrepentant fornicator, or because I harboured independent thoughts (which I again humbly asked them to correct through scriptural reasoning). Again, no answer - absolute silence.

    After I had been df’d I was advised that I could appeal the decision of the JC. I spoke to a few elders who were friends of mine. They assured me that the decision would be over-turned by “Jehovah’s Organization” and encouraged me to appeal. It was at this point that I learned that under the Society’s rules for JCs, I had a right to have a witnesses present to speak on my behalf before the JC. I thought that the JC’s refusal to let me have a witness present, and the fact that I was never actually told why I was being df’d, would give me a slam-dunk appeal. I still naively trusted that, despite a few nut-bars, the organization was essentially good and the good men on the appeal committee would at least give me a fair hearing. Stupid me.

    The appeal committee met with me for less than 5 minutes. They also had no answers to my questions about why my actions were considered a disfellowshipping offence. I suggested that they speak to my fiance who could verify my humility and sincerity, and the fact that she was not pregnant and that I had not confessed merely because I knew that my actions would be exposed once her pregnancy became known. They told me that the appeal committee would only base its decision on the evidence which was before the original JC and that they could not hear from witnesses. “As a lawyer, you should know this” they said. I replied that secular appeal courts do not rigidly follow rules of procedure when the result would obviously be a miscarriage of justice. In such cases appeal courts regularly overturn lower courts and order new trials. No response from the brothers.

    I had the clear impression that these brothers knew that what they were doing was wrong. None of them would make eye contact with me and they were continuously shifting nervously in their seats and looking nervously at each other, as if looking for support as they struggled with their uncomfortable task of sticking rigidly to a decision which they had clearly made before hearing from me, and which they all knew was wrong.

    I was told that I would be formally disfellowshipped 2 days before my wedding day, although I still did not know why. My fiance was told that if she married me after I was df’d she would be df’d next, but if she married me before I was formally df’d, she would not be. Very principled men these brothers. We moved our wedding date forward by a week.

    For a few months after being df’d I went to meetings. However, I just could not get past the incredible hypocrisy of it all. It was all I could do not to laugh out loud when the WT or speakers ridiculed the legalism and hypocrisy of the Pharisees.

    I met once with the elders after I was df’d and I was told that I would be re-instated once they were convinced that I was humble and truly repentant. I told them that I had never stopped being humble, but it was unlikely I would ever be repentant because I honestly did not think I had committed a serious sin and no-one had even bothered to discuss this issue with me, let alone explain to me how I had misunderstood the scriptures. I have not been to a meeting since 1996. My wife, who was never df’d, stopped going 3 years ago. We now have 2 beautiful kids - a 2 1/2 year old son, and an 8 month old daughter. Recently we had flirted with the idea of going back to the KH, in order to expose our children to the Bible. I then decided to do a little research and found this site about a month ago. As a result of what we have learned, we have made a definite decision that our children will not be raise in the Borg, in any other organized religion. I am now an unapologetic moral agnostic and my wife is, I suppose, a non-denominational Christian. Our kids will be fine without a church.

    I’m glad I found this site and look forward to participating in a few discussions (although the racist stuff really irritates me).

    Chris

  • mommy
    mommy

    Hey Chris,
    I really enjoyed your post. It is so frustrating for me to see the wrongs of the org, and the lives they have meddled with, without any scriptual proof. I am so happy you stuck to your guns! And your wife stayed with you as well. Too often marriages are severed as well.

    I went to another religion, after I left the org. I was a nondenominational christian as well. I have a girl 7 and a son 6, who I felt "obligated" to teach about god. This worked well for a few years, but recently my views have changed on the subject. I no longer believe in god. Big huge mountain in my life to climb over, but I did it without breaking a sweat. There is so much to be said about peace of heart. And when you choose your path and stick to it, it is much better, than blindly following.

    I am glad you stuck around, even with the mess we are in now. I am hoping since things cannot be settled, perhaps everyone will decide to bow out gracefully, and let this matter rest. I was involved, and am truly sorry that it has gotten as bad as it has.

    Again welcome! And please stick around
    wendy

    Blind faith can justify anything~Richard Dawkins, The selfish gene

  • Princess
    Princess

    Hi Chris, welcome to the board. You have quite a story, thanks for sharing it with us. I'm always amazed at the way the elders have treated some of us. It seems many are very intimidated by those with higher education. I'm sure the fact that you are an attorney just scared them to death.

    My husband and I also left when our first child was born (almost five years ago). We are both non-demoninational christians like your wife. We also feel that our children will be fine without a church. We pray with them and I have bought some great bible stories books to read to them. We occasionally meet some resistance to our decision not to take them to church, mostly at Christmas from some born again relatives and from various church going friends. I can't imagine why they need to belong to a church in order to know God. They can make that decision when they are adults...years from now!

    Your story has such a happy ending. I'm glad you found this site and made the decision to raise your family outside the borg.

    Princess

    "...and they lived happily ever after."

  • esther
    esther

    Hi Chris, it's funny how having doubts is fine until you are baptised. After baptism, you are not supposed to entertain any doubts whatsoever. Glad you kept yours and welcome to the board.

    BTW, the racist stuff irritates me, too. I also don't like it when the discussions get vicious.

    esther

  • think41self
    think41self

    Hi Chris,

    Thank you SO much for sharing your story with us!

    I am (again [8>]) appalled at the unfair, unloving treatment you received by "God's spirit appointed men". HAHAHAHAHA

    Seriously, your story is so sad because it has happened to so many. But the fact that you and your wife stayed together, she left the borg also, you now have 2 beautiful children who will escape that enslavement...
    ahhhh...I love happy endings!

    I'm glad you found this site, and I hope it is as encouraging to you and your wife as it has been for me and my family.

    Take care,
    Tracy

  • Commie Chris
    Commie Chris

    Thank you all for your replies. As I suspected, only women would take the time to read a long personal account and respond to it. I have to admit, I rarely read such long posts and I doubt whether many other men do either.

    Since my experience with the JC I have sometimes wondered how elders are chosen to sit on a JC, and how they are trained for this task. Certainly they do not need to be either intelligent or fair-minded. Small-minded, mean-spirited little men will do just fine.

    I have long ago gotten over my treatment by these frightened, dishonest little men - after all, I had invested only a few years of my life in the org. - but I am really angry at the knowledge that whole families have been torn apart and lives ruined by these people. My heart really goes out to people who have lived their whole lives in the "truth" only to be arbitrarily turfed out by these "loving" men.

  • zev
    zev

    actually chris....
    i am a man, {though my pic says otherwise} and a "few" women here could verify i am indeed a stud muffin.

    anyways, i love to read personal experiences, and i do often.
    i enjoyed reading yours. what you went through undeniably shows the inconsistancy of the borg. their greatest consistancy is their inconsistancy. one gets slapped on the wrist, the other, gets canned.

    and without scripural "reprooving! did they even open the bible? all to often, they dont. i have seen it before. you ask for "help", you get tossed into the mire, because they have to protect the congregation. wouldnt the best way to protect it, be to humbly show from scripture what wrong turn you made?

    oh, wait....

    i forgot, most j-dubs dont actually read the bible, much less formulate valuable opinions of their own about what it says in order to lead their lives.

    its all about what "mother" says. and if mother is right or wrong, its still mother.

    godspeed to you my friend.

    your family is better off with the growing "great crowd" here on j-dub.com, dont you think?

    Gramps
    __
    Zev
    Now feeling the pain of sitting on the pickets class.

  • peterstride
    peterstride

    Hi Chris, and welcome to the board.

    I also had bad treatment at the hands of so called loving elders in one of the dowtown Toronto congregations. Like you, they also had no answers, and all they were concerned about was following the party line.

    Your name is vaguelly familiar to me. I'll ask a couple other ex-JW friends if they know you. Maybe we should meet for a coffee and compare expreriences!

    Peter Stride
    Toronto, Canada

  • esther
    esther

    Chris, you said

    Since my experience with the JC I have sometimes wondered how elders are chosen to sit on a JC, and how they are trained for this task.

    I don't believe that they are chosen. I think that it depends who is available at the time.

    To go back to your JC experience, I daresay that your being a lawyer would not have helped matters. Most of the elders are not well educated, and JWs are taught that it is not good to get higher education. So it is likely that they felt inadequate to discuss things with you, and so resorted to attacking your integrity, in order to avoid showing their lack of knowledge. This is just a guess, of course, because we don't really know what drives another person.

    esther

  • outnfree
    outnfree

    Hi, Chris!

    Sorry it took me so long to welcome you!

    As I was reading your experience, I was thinking that the hardliner was likely chosen for just the purpose of bullying you into submission.

    The elder body meets:

    Elder #1 - "Brother Chris has confessed to porneia, we have to set up a JC"

    P.O. - "Who would be available to meet with him after Thursday's meeting?"

    Elder #2 - "I can't, I'm working midnights and have to go home to change and get ready."

    Elder #3 - "Brother Chris, isn't that that new brother who is a lawyer?"

    Elder #1 - "Yes, yes, he is. I guess whoever's on that JC better not let him get the upper hand!"

    Elder #4 - "What do you mean, get the upper hand? If he's already confessed to porneia, how could he possibly get the upper hand? The Bible clearly says that porneia is wrong, and there's no getting around that!"

    Elder #5 - "I agree. And I'm available, Brother P.O."

    Elder #4 - "I'm available, too!"

    P.O. - "Okay, then, let's have Elder #4, Elder #5 and Elder #1 sit on the judicial committee. Elder #5 will you telephone Brother Chris and let him know you'll meet with him then? Here's his #."

    Hardliner #4 chosen from those available, yes, but also chosen for his no-nonsense attitude. [>:(]

    As another who walked in to the Witness organization as an adult and high-tailed it out of there a few short months ago, I am still amazed at what power we let these untrained, oftentimes egotistical, elders have over us!

    Your story made me stop to reflect if a Bible was EVER opened during my 2-1/2 hr. meeting with the elders after I handed them my DA letter.
    I remember a prayer opening and closing. But I honestly think a Bible was never cracked open by anyone the whole time!!! (I wouldn't have thought that possible -- once upon a time...)

    Anyway, thank you for sharing, and welcome to the Board, I know you'll love it, and my advice to you is to totally ignore the flame wars. I do!

    outnfree
    (who wonders are you really a communist lawyer? Is that even possible??? )

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