What Would You Say/Do?

Panda

Well this has been a thorn in my side for a few days now and I would appreciate some input.

My very good friend who avidly watches the religion channels decided to tell me about an ex-atheist who was interviewed . This is what she told me: Apparently this extremely well educated PhD'd woman physicist had always hated god.

(I said if she hated god she wasn't an atheist) My friend ignored that remark.

She then claimed the woman had a "moment " when a professor was explaining some complicated formula on the board

(black board? I asked.) she again ignored me.

Well, this professor supposedly said after his lecture "I can explain why this happens but not how it happens." At this point I decided to get some answers and make comments.

I asked "If she was ABD for physics what was she doing in a classroom listening to a lecture?" No response.

Every physicist I know would've had 50 answers to why AND how "stuff" happens. Even 1st year chemistry students know how and why chemical bonding and reactions occur. They know the difference between a molecule an element and an atom and how the why's happen. Sheesh....

My friend stood there and said to me "ok go ahead and explain "how" physics happen." I said " fine do you have 4 years to study?" I said "I would gladly explain how and why for any question regarding science OR I'd find a book to explain more fully."

"No" she said you can't explain how things happen." I said"Yes, I will explain but you will need to listen for more than a sound bite of feel good -isms"

There was so much I wanted to say. But I was frustrated because I saw that same blank belief that I used to see on jw's faces when they were confronted with science... absolute denial. It scared me because I thought (stupid of me) that I'd left that behind. So how would you deal with this thorny issue.

kls

Panda you know you can't force someone to see what they don't want to see,and you can't make them listen if their mind is set. Let your friend think with a closed mind and it sounds like they have no interest in what you have to say. Geez some people.

And i have never heard of a Atheist that hated God when they don't believe in him.

Markfromcali

Are you sure it wasn't the why that can't be explained, like when you try to explain things to a kid and they just respond to each answer with why?

For example, we can get into how we might talk to someone like that, which addresses the question of what would you say, but why would you want to? So much of this kind of stuff seem to be surrounded with having something to prove, but if nobody is going off the deep end then whatever I say.

Panda

KLS, I know right...you can't hate something you don't believe exists. I guess I was so darn overwhelmed by the emotion when I looked at her face. I tried not to think it was that same look as the dubs but it was and I felt like a deer in the headlights. Maybe it's post traumatic stress disorder rearing its ugly head. Maybe because it was so unexpected... not the religious stuff but the look. I don't know what to call that look. You know it reminds me of those old Outer Limits shows when the scientist gets possessed by the alien and just looks at his friends with that particular eye angle...

Panda

Markfromcali, Thanks for your comment because I wondered WHY such a big deal was made out of HOW??? I think the person on tv was trying to spin words in order to grab attention. We are used to hearing Why? But not using How? as the end question. Typical Christian right stuff, but my very friend who said I had been brainwashed by jws is now exhibiting the same cognative disonance when it come to science (especially evolution and the origins of the universe). So yeah she said "we know why but we don't know how"...which is ridiculous yet made an impact on my friend. Very sad.

heathen

I think I would say to not watch these tv freaks . I might occassionally pass a channel and stop but they don't impress me as being some sort of quick fix for everything that's wrong in your life as advertised . They are con men and use scripture to manipulate people to give them money and basically disgust me . Some of them are even getting sued for swindeling money from senior citizens or for fraud . I still think the bible is an interesting book but what people do in the name of religion is a total disgrace .

Panda

Heathen, Thank you for your note. I agree with you completely. You know hearing this whole bunch of crap from my really good friend is sort of devastating... at first I didn't know why. But of course now I do. One of my first reactions is to find out the actual facts (which I'm sure are distorted) and show my dear buddy pal what fakes those tv evangelists are. but, that will just make her mad. Religion is so harmful and divisive...

Fe2O3Girl

I don't think there is anything you can say or do to dissuade someone from a viewpoint that they WANT to believe.

If her position as a Christian was fully backed up by logic, she would not be jumping at a third hand anecdotal account of an anonymous scientist who experienced an epiphany. Whether someone famous or respected holds a certain viewpoint is irrelevant to its veracity, if that person has no qualification or experience in that field.

That is to say it would be foolish to use Prince Charles' ideas on architecture or biotechnology as a guide, just as it would be foolish to say "Prince (or Michael Jackson in the 80s) is a JW" as if that proved anything positive about being a JW.

I realised back when I was a schoolgirl that the obsession some JWs have with finding "celebrity" JWs is due to a deepseated insecurity about their beliefs and position. The same applies when anyone cites the fact that someone else believes what they do as a supporting argument.

The second issue, related to the first, is the "I have no scientific training or education, and I cannot understand this (cosmology, quantum physics, evolution, how a TV works, whatever); therefore it cannot be true" standpoint. What can you say?

heathen

Panda--- Is your friend handicapped that she likes to watch the tv evangelists? I guess you just have to learn by experience for some people . Next you know she'll be buying prayer cloths from robert tilton just because he prayed on it or something . What a friggen joke . I am just glad I'm on to the scheme .They are real crafty with the scriptures to try and make you feel obligated to give them money . I think the WTBTS patterns it's pledge drives in similar fassion . The guilt factor is very persuasive . Maybe you can get your friend to visit the board sometime and we will discuss these latest revelations from the lying theiving bastards . I prove them wrong just about every time I tune in . It's the only thing interesting about it .

Panda

Heathen, Thanks for the ideas. She just leaves the TV on all day (yeah I know) and the channel doesn't change until her grandkids get home from school . I guess that since she was one of my first totally out of the borg friends , we share a love of tropical aquariums, that I want her to have common sense in everything. She keeps saying I will never change her faith. Is that what I sound like to her? And she says "I'll pray for you." That used to make me think okay she cares. But now I feel more like, stop that , I don't want to hear it.

I am grateful to everyone for the comments here. Thanx

What Would You Say/Do?

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