by Terry 49 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Terry

    Cause and Effect 101.

    Obi Wan Kenobe tells Luke Skywalker: "Trust your feelings, Luke".

    Listen to people say they will: "Go with my gut feeling".

    Mystics, Guru's, meditation philosophers, all tell you the "answers" lie within your "feelings" and the source of true knowledge is not__outside__but, "inside".

    Can this be true?

    Let's take a look.

    Our bodies don't have to be told when something hurts or feels good. It is innate. We are wired that way. Pleasure leads us forward and pain pulls us back.

    Such "feelings" are not emotions; but, a barometer of basic alternatives which protect us from injury and death.

    Man is born with an emotional mechanism. It is a blank slate (tabla rasa). Man's mind has to "program" this mechanism consciously or it is __inadvertantly__done by unconscious forces.

    Mankind's __mind__is the result of either THINKING or EVASIONS.

    One chooses values consciously or it is done by default.

    Let us look at DEFAULT:

    1.Subconscious associations

    2.Blind faith

    3.Someone else's Authority

    4.Social osmosis

    5.Blind imitation

    In other words, our VALUES are either OUR OWN by choice or they become DEFAULT values.

    Life on Earth is life or death.

    We choose actions that enable life, improve conditions of life or.......

    actions that lead us into a downward spiral of self-destruction.

    That is the role of VALUES. Values tell us how close we are to our goal of a better life OR how far away we are from a better life.

    A Rational person uses their mind to discover the__source__of emotions. The rational person asks :"What are my basic premises?"


    A wrong premise leads to a wrong conclusion.

    In a CAUSE and EFFECT universe our actions lead to effects. If we know why we take action we know what effect to expect.

    EMOTIONS are never a cause.

    Let me repeat that: Emotions are never a cause.

    This is backwards.

    The mind is the cause and the emotions are the effect when Conscious programming has set our values.

    But, when unconscious values have been set for us by default, it "seems" as though EMOTIONS are causes and our mind is at effect.

    The "inward" seems to be "other" only when we have not used our own mind and thought process to SET THE VALUES. We follow our "heart", and "go with our gut" and look "inside" and act surprised at what we find!

    A rational person uses a ruthlessly honest commitment to introspection to weed out __values__that have been set there to discover the source. Was it conscious and logical? Or, was it unconscious and alien?

    Unconscious choices are vicious illusions that can ruin our lives.

    Unconscious emotions are self-deceptions.

    There can be no __causeless__love or any kind of __causeless__emotion. An emotion is a response to a fact of reality, an estimate dictated by your value standards.

    Do you know where your strong emotions come from? Do you think they should be __obeyed_?

    Or, do you "own" your emotions because you set their values?

    What is the source of mankind's woes (other than accident?)

    Man pursues CONTRADICTIONS. Man wants to eat his cake and still have it.

    This irrational goal setting is at odds with reality. This is civil war between emotions and mind. A disintegrated consciousness leads to a disintegrated life.

    You either are in charge of your thinking or SOME BLIND PROGRAMMER has set the values for you!

    What do YOU know and how do you distinguish it from what you FEEL?

    Do you own your emotions are do you blindly follow them as private gurus?

    Agree? Disagree?

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    I thought you said emoticons.

    After studying AIDS/HIV and discovering how emotion is used to indoctrinate us into that cult, I turned my attention to the most important issue in my life and discovered the same deception there. Different subject, same technique.

    I am learning to isolate emotion so that it does not influence my conclusions, but it takes time.

  • SixofNine

    Agree, mostly. I wonder though, if while you and I may have a born disposition to see our emotions for what they are; if some, perhaps even most, have no such disposition, and possibly even (for some people at least), no such ability? I hope I'm wrong, but I know that I came to approximately the same conclusions as yourself simply by following my gut. ;-)

    It's humorous, but it's true I think. Yes I'm a very introspective person, but introspection comes naturally to me.

    In any case, I applaud your post, because I think people can only be helped by learning that emotions are products of thought, and humans can only move forward (individually or collectively) by bravely owning up to and facing their thoughts, conscious or unconcious though those thoughts may be.

  • gumby
    You either are in charge of your thinking or SOME BLIND PROGRAMMER has set the values for you!

    What do YOU know and how do you distinguish it from what you FEEL?

    Do you own your emotions are do you blindly follow them as private gurus?

    Well I'm going to be unlike Brad in this one and apply this to the dubs

    The WTBTS teaches it's members in the manner you described as reality.

    Here's what they do................... A JW womans son gets disfellowshipped and now she must avoid contact with him. In her mind when the announcment is made....her mind tells her she must now avoid her son. Her emotions are the effect of this thinking and her hearts bleeds for her son and she brakes down into uncontrollable tears of sadness.

    Clearly a JW has no ownership of their emotions in that they can make their own personal decisions based off them, and those who are not controlled by others thinking, make the best decisions they can based off their OWN experiences in life. I wonder which ones make the best decisions? Gee....that's a toughie

    btw.....good info Terry


  • Satanus

    Quite a good fusion or the rational and what has been called the mystic.

    Unconscious emotions are self-deceptions.

    Not necessarily. Some of it could be truth. It depends on the person, his family/traditions background.


  • logansrun

    You say that emotions are always an effect of mind, hence inferior to mind. Tell me, how is mind not an effect itself?


  • Terry


    "You say that emotions are always an effect of mind, hence inferior to mind. Tell me, how is mind not an effect itself? "


    ******************************************** A very intelligent question!

    What is "mind" after all? If we point to it physically we point to the top of our head; indicating the brain. The brain is not the mind but the mechanism that enables the mind to function. The mind is a process, for one thing. And not just "a" process, but, many simultaneous processes which are elemental. The elements are electro-chemical. That is the constituency. But, letters of the alphabet are constituents of great literature and not the reverse. When we are born with a functioning brain we are a creature with mostly two systems operating in us: voluntary and involuntary. Our metabolic system, circulatory and respiratory systems are involuntary to a large degree. What of our "mental" capacity? The basic operating system of humankind consists of a brain that functions to maintain the physical operating system__and__an additional "capacity" to learn from stimulus response. In this sense, responding to the stimulus via the senses, mind is the "effect" of that stimulus. However, this is only mechanical. Let us not make too much of it. Let me give a dramatic example. We are born into this universe. We survive or we die. We survive either through the selfless charity of others or we learn to self-exist through controlling our enviornment. As an infant we are entirely helpless and dependant on the goodwill of our caretaker. At a certain level of maturity we begin separating ourselves (differentiating). What is our survival capacity? It depends on what we have __learned__at the hands of our caretaker and what we have self-processed by observation, focus and analysis. Garbage in.....garbage out. Could anything be more dramatic? Physical health is obvious as are the effects of being healthy. Is physical health __itself__an effect? What we eat, how we exercise, what we breathe, how we interact in our enviornment determine our health....PLUS...what our born-with capacity for health was to begin with (hereditary constitution) A person who determines (wills) to eat the best food possible, determines (wills) to exercise regulary, determines (wills) to dwell in an optimum enviornment has a huge advantage healthwise. However, if that person has inherited a poor physical constitution (hereditary predisposition) these efforts might have less effect. This is NO LESS TRUE for our mind. Mental health is obvious. A healthy mind is pro-survival. The method of functioning of a healthy mind is to give man control over his enviornment to optimize its effect on his well-being. The distinguishing characteristic is REALITY itself! (Reality is how things really are whether we agree or not) A man who operates in the context of how things really are (as opposed to an imaginary representation) functions optimally. Mental health gives man control of his reality as far as possible for his capacity. The hallmark of this control is SELF-ESTEEM. SELF-ESTEEM is the effect of a cause. It is the consequence, expression and reward of a mind committed to REASON. What is "reason"? Reason is the faculty which __identifies__and__integrates__materials provided by the senses (sight, smell, taste, touch, hearing). It is man's basic tool of survival. Commitment to reason is commitment to the maintenance of full intellectual focus, the constant expansion of one's understanding and knowledge and most importantly to the conviction that one's actions must be consistent with one's convictions. A healthy mind will never, never, ever attempt to FAKE REALITY by allowing a contradiction. What kind of contradiction? Permitting oneself to subvert or sabotage the proper functioning of consciousness. What is the proper functioning of consciousness? The proper functioning of consciousness is: 1.perception 2.cognition 3.control of one's actions A __blocked__consciousness evades reality. This creates a conflict between man and the real world and divides the man against himself. What are the symptoms of an evaded reality? What are the symptoms of a man divided against himself? 1.Fear 2.Immobilization by depression 3.Disassociation from reality (wishful thinking) (belief in magic)(mystical belief) 4.Low self-esteem So, in view of the above can we answer your question now? Is man's mind, itself, an "effect"? A brain is the effect of heredity. A mind is the effect of stimulus through the senses. A healthy/unhealthy mind are the effect of focus and valuation. Man's actions are the effect of his values and reason. Reason is the effect of mental health status. Morality is the effect of harmony/disharmony with personal values. Self-esteem is the effect of mental health. So, if the mind is an effect; what is the cause? 1.Heredity 2.Sensory data 3.Focus and valuation 4.Rational/irrational analysis 5.Value setting in accord with standard (surival or fantasy) 6.Self esteem 7.Action Did I overkill my answer? Remember, I'm pedantic! :)
  • MerryMagdalene

    oops, sorry...thought you said "Emoticons..."

  • BluesBrother

    I am not intellectual . I have however read Dr Wayne Dyer and learned that emotion follows thinking. Therefore if one choses what to think , one choses what emotions to have .. We are the sum total of our choices

  • MerryMagdalene

    Actually, I agree with a lot of what you said, Terry (at least what I could comprehend of it) but I think it possible that you misunderstood or oversimplified the opening quotes you used. "Feelings" does not automatically mean "emotions"-- it can carry the somewhat broader meaning of "sensations" and could apply to a full range of information taken in through the physical senses as well as what I consider the more "subtle" senses of instinct and intuition. Just my small take on a small part of what you said. Carry on.

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