Sci-Fi Fans Only: A.I.

by Maximus 42 Replies latest jw friends

DCs Ghost

what i believe is the biggest let down of the movie is the choice of director, Spielberg is more about family entertainment, though Schindler''s List and Saving Private Ryan were an exception to what he is known for, he usually focuses on sci-fi/fantasy, blockbuster hollywood--- ET, Back to the Future, Close Encounters,
Kubrik on the other hand is more about irony and pushing buttons, a message mixed with dark humor, reality and the dark side of human nature take Eyes Wide Shut as an example, full blown obsession and jealousy. at the same time he is a perfectionist of sort, Clockwork Orange, Full Metal Jacket, 2001, all delivered in genius style, disturbing and moving,

i'm not knocking Speilberg cause i feel he is a talented and gifted director but his vision is different.
had Kubrik been around to share his input into the film i believe we would have had a very different film, to say how he would have approached it would be to speculate, but i am sure it would not have been delivered in Spielberg style and perhaps more of the issues would have been expanded on
peace
dc
Maximus

Hey, DC, great insights.
You've fingered what will be the great debate for a long time to come. However, it was Kubrick himself who wanted Spielberg to direct. Spielberg demurred for a long time; they spent considerable time together on the project, which Kubrick had worked with for many years.
In an interview after the film's release, Kubrick's emotional brother-in-law noted the tenor of the film was precisely what Kubrick wanted, not trusting his own chilly nature. Kubrick could have ended it with the blue fairy denouement--but it is, after all, a fairy tale. And he wouldn't have used a voiceover. And he ... now, stop it, Maximus!
After enduring really bad sci-fi movies for a very long time, I was glad to see the seamless technical portrayal of the mecha, and I hope that the bar is raised for future flics. Isaac Asimov would have loved it, but would have quickly picked up a violation in his First Law of Robotics in the swimming pool scene.
Spielberg is wrapping up another dark one, but its more comedic.
You guys have blown me away with the quality of your perceptive analyses and the depth of your insight. BTW: Did you catch the homages to Kubrick from Clockwork Orange? 2001, Strauss? Huge hip audience where I was.
Maximus
Seeker

Some further comments based on what other's have said, with some SPOILERS contained:
It makes an enourmous difference whether or not those are aliens at the end or mechas. With mechas, you have a unified whole to the picture. The story arc is complete. With aliens, you would have something out of left field thrown into the picture at the end, with no foreshadowing.
Kubrick's original script treatment included the 2,000-year-future scene; it was not something Spielberg tacked on at the end. What Kubrick didn't complete was the middle section, with Joe. He had a much darker, more openly sexual middle, but didn't know how to tie that into the whole and make it work. That middle section is the section that Spielberg made the most changes to, toning down the sexuality and toning down Joe so that he could be more of a father figure for David. So if you want to criticize the ending, it wasn't Spielberg's idea. In fact, one of the three original Brian Aldiss short stories on which this movie was based had a 2,000-year-future scene. It was always part of the story.
Eusebius Hieronymus

http://www.donu-tech.com/alert.html
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Please don't tell sKally.
We are not out there. We are HERE!
Jerry, President
Donu-Tech
DCs Ghost

double post
DCs Ghost

morning all,
MAXIMUS you are right on, from what i understand and have read, indeed it was supposed to be a collaboration between the 2 directors, where Kubrik was going to be more involved in the production as opposed to direction, he did indeed want the fairy tale ending, for indeed it WAS a fairy tale, so yes it was his ending after all and not SS as many speculate, who am i to argue with a creative genius like Kubrik??
i also have come to understand that when he was in the process of developing it he kept on calling the project pinocchio
my only qualm with the movie was that it could have been stained more with his trademark cynicism.
Now as far as the law of robotics that you mentioned, this is my take on the pool scene: David shortcircuited when he ate because it was internal moisture, dealing with the type of android that he was it is highly possible that the skin over the robotics was cloned skined where it would contain the same properties as real skin keeping the moisture out, :)
Actually i did catch on, and what we were discussing after the film was that Teddy's voice was the same as (forget the compos voice in 2001??) and wasn't the astronaut also called david? that indeed was a nice touch, robin williams as Dr Know's voice ws cool too. . .The decor was very Kubrik also, it indeed was a good fusion between the two, as i am sure they spent much time discussing the film, after all SK was known for his attention to detail and perfectionism it was always about capturing that perfect moment on every frame, continuity and detail were among his trademarks
hey Max where did you see the film???
Seeker
i agree with you 1000%, those alien beings indeed WERE highly advanced meccha, from the way they "resurrected" david to the way that they communicated with each other and the foreshadowing of joe about what was to become of the humans
also
as i was saying above Kubrik was all about continuity and detail, he would not throw something out from left field that would leave the audience to question such a major factor in the ending
and that is what i was implying when i said that Spielberg had his "style" in the final result, only speculating, but Kubrik prolly would indeed have made joe much more sexual than SS did. . .
soooo Final Fantasy this friday
and
Planet of the Apes the following
with the quality of movies this summer whe may need a movie forum or simply tack these on to the art section. . .
anyone ever catch the racial metaphors in planet of the apes???
and the similarities to animal farm and how it might be if animals indeed organized themselves and payed us back for messing up their planet???
cheers
J/k
dc
Maximus

DCG:
Could/would a robot (a mecha) have harmed an orga by clinging to him and risking drowning? "First do no harm" stuff? Such a teeny thought that flashed.

Catch the Strauss music before going into the city via bridge combining visual of Clockwork Orange and music of 2001? The voice was Joe Ang ... too lazy to look it up. Not Hal. "Good morning, Dave."
For those who missed it earlier, the title of Brian Aldiss' short story was:
"Super-toys Last All Summer"
Spielberg's latest (unreleased) is based on Philip K. Dick, another dark writer.
"Minority Report," with Tom Cruise.
In concert with sci-fi fan Jerome who posted above, I STRONGLY suggest you check out the Chan family site in detail as well. Those who googled the name of the Sentient Machine Therapist in the movie credits got a surprise ...
http://familychan.org/
I agree that it would not be appropriate to tell sKally. Did anyone check the Donu-tech site? The date grabbed my attention, then ...
Would be a bit compromising to tell you where I saw the film.
Missed you, Seeker!
Still blown away by some of the trenchant, penetrating comments from you guys.
Max
Maximus

So this doesn't get lost in the previous post.
Anyone read Ray Kurzweil's "The Age of Spiritual Machines"?
"When computers exceed human intelligence."
Tantalizing and terrifying.
Max
messenger

Well I hope not to offend anyone, but this forum has been founded on the free expression of opinions. Here is mine regarding AI.
It sucked the big one.
I think Steven has lost it and is now just recycling all his old movies. How many movies did he borrow from to make AI? Let me name a few:
1. Close Encounters (thin stringy aliens)
2. Raiders (half eaten faces)
3. ET (search lights at night)
4. Jurassic Park (Motorcycles teeth chasing robots)
5. Tron (motorcycle rider outfits)
6. Saving Private Ryan (pointless suicide)
7. Amistad(robots in cages)
8. Hook (fairy granting wishes)
9. The Color Purple (I want my mommy)
10. 1941 (crashing ferris wheel)
11. Always (2000 years?)
12, Sugarland Express (chased by bad police)
13. Duel (dueling helicopters)
14 Jaws (trapped under water)
Then there are the endless staring scenes with the now typical Spielbergesq poor writing that has taken over all his latest movies. How many times did the little dude say mommy? It nearly drove me crazy. What was the point of all the around the table endless eating scenes? Was there one human in this movie that had any redeeming qualities? All seemed to be selfish and cruel. I spent the first half of the movie trying to stay awake and the second half trying to find an excuse for not leaving. I never found it.
Sorry Maximus, I beg to differ……
Seeker

Great opinions! Now, lemme trash 'em... :)
1. Close Encounters (thin stringy aliens)
Since there were no aliens in A.I., I don't see that connection.
2. Raiders (half eaten faces)
Hardly similar, and for vastly different reasons in any case.
3. ET (search lights at night)
Any searches at night require lights.
4. Jurassic Park (Motorcycles teeth chasing robots)
Now that's a bit of a stretch.
5. Tron (motorcycle rider outfits)
See any movie about a dystopian future for similar outfits. Almost universal.
6. Saving Private Ryan (pointless suicide)
Hardly pointless, and a bit of a stretch to equate suicide to SPR.
7. Amistad(robots in cages)
Cages are hardly unique to Amistad.
8. Hook (fairy granting wishes)
An almost universal storyline, on a deep enough level.
9. The Color Purple (I want my mommy)
An even more universal theme.
10. 1941 (crashing ferris wheel)
I'll grant you that one.
11. Always (2000 years?)
LOL, you know that one is absurd.
12, Sugarland Express (chased by bad police)
What bad police?
13. Duel (dueling helicopters)
What dueling helicopters?
14 Jaws (trapped under water)
Who got trapped under water in Jaws for 2,000 years?
Then there are the endless staring scenes with the now typical Spielbergesq poor writing that has taken over all his latest movies. How many times did the little dude say mommy?
Evidently not nearly enough for you to get the theme, eh? :)
It nearly drove me crazy. What was the point of all the around the table endless eating scenes?
First to show David wanting to learn all about his human parents, then to show what the brother did to him. Finally as a symbol of his interest in his parents, even during times that had no relevance to him.
Was there one human in this movie that had any redeeming qualities? All seemed to be selfish and cruel.
Meet Stanley Kubrick! All his movies have this element.
I spent the first half of the movie trying to stay awake and the second half trying to find an excuse for not leaving. I never found it.
Fair enough, can't argue with that and you are welcome to your opinion. However, you can't really criticize Spielberg for a) using universal themes (all stories do), and b) for many things that were Kubrick's or Aldiss's ideas, not Spielberg's.

Sci-Fi Fans Only: A.I.

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