10 But they themselves rebelled and made his holy spirit FEEL HURT. He now was changed into an enemy of theirs; he himself warred against them.
*How can an 'impersonal force' FEEL HURT?? (Isa 63: 10 NWT)
How can an 'impersonal force' feel hurt?? (Isa 63: 10 NWT)
by Tyre 11 Replies latest watchtower bible
-
Tyre
-
seattleniceguy
Hi there, Tyre. I haven't welcomed you to the board yet.
So...you realize that we don't all believe God is an impersonal force, or all believe the Bible, or anything, right?
SNG
-
XQsThaiPoes
Um in all truthfulness this passage is not talking about the holy spirit but, a holy spirit. In the popular trinity the holyspirt is God in this verse this holy spirit is owned by God.
Here is from the NIV isa 63
9 In all their distress he too was distressed,
and the angel of his presence saved them.
In his love and mercy he redeemed them;
he lifted them up and carried them
all the days of old.
10 Yet they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit.
So he turned and became their enemy
and he himself fought against them. -
avengers
Hi there, Tyre. I haven't welcomed you to the board yet.
I haven't either. Welcome.
Are you really from Indonesia?
I was born there.About the "holy spirit"? The bible is very, very "clear" about that . lol.
Andy
-
Tyre
Hi there, Tyre. I haven't welcomed you to the board yet.
So...you realize that we don't all believe God is an impersonal force, or all believe the Bible, or anything, right?
SNG
Some of you may be don't care with others person which is still being slave by WT Soc. and ViceVersa.
but I do, I do care with them. Actually I search for others opinions from you before having discussing with elder or something, at least I knew the answer from you.
I never be a JW. I am a Trinitarians, trying to help person which is still a JW in my country.
Please led me. I am new one in learning WT Soc. This forum fill me with so much informations.
thank you in advance.
-
-
Tyre
Thank you for your reply. I knew you are an EX.
In the point of view of JW, HS just only an electricity, Impersonal force, etc.
How can an 'Impersonal force' (says electricity, active force, etc). can feel hurt in Isa 63:10?
I need your help regarding WT Soc quotes about HS. At least I can help JWs out from WTBS in my country.
-
The rock
Hello,
The Holy Spirit does a lot of things. He even speaks. I am a Christian who Witnesses to J. w..
I have a watchtower cd if there is a quote u want to know. Just say and I will try and look it up. You can buy them of e-bay.
One of my first experiences with religious bigotry was over the issue of "Shekina Glory". The word "Shekina" [as such] does not appear in any known (canonized) text, yet was (is) used and understood these last few thousand years by all Jews to mean the Holy Presence of God Which filled the Sanctuary; especially the Holy of Holies from between the cerubs atop the Mercy-Seat lid of the Ark of the Covenant. (For further info, see Strong's Hebrew #7931-5 {"shakan-yah"}; also, for Biblical use, as in Ps 68:18 {above} "dwell"[among them=Hebrew="shakan")
But the real issue was that I believed, held and knew from experience that the Holy Spirit Is a Real Presence and can (and does) Prove His Reality by direct Communication with a believer! [This threatens man's "order-of-worship-religion"]
It was this "idea" of "direct communication" which perturbed (infuriated!) one of my Bible College Professors. He was convinced that ALL Inspirational Revelation from God is Complete [CLOSED!] in the Bible, and that, (although God used to "speak" directly to man), God had said all He was going to say in Christ & the Bible! [It was almost as though he felt that -having "LOCKED" the Cannon- God HAD NO RIGHT {now} to continue Direct-Revelation to ANYONE. Such, after all, was the "touch-stone" of ALL "error", in his opinion. And, if any such "Diect-Revelation" should contraDict the Cannon - I would have to agree with him!]
Any further "communications" from God were heretical, cultic, dangerous, diabolical - possibly even Satanic! They were certainly not to be tolerated; but were, rather, to be squelched! (I might add here that the man's spirit and manner was anything other-than humble, charitable, kind, loving or even genuine!). Typical. What did I learn from this "professor"?; "THAT's not "it"!!! Even the demons and the devil himself spout [or spit] scripture... but that doesn't mean THAT's "Scripture"!
But let's see what Jesus says in Jn 16:12-15 "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now (you're not strong enough ..yet!). Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth (which will Free & Strengthen you with Power!): for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that s*h*a*l*l h*e s*p*e*a*k: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, a*n*d s*h*a*l*l s*h*e*w it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you."
Now the way people get around this today is to assert that Jesus wasn't talking to you & me here [your 1st "clue" to be WARY!]; that is, he was referring to the disciples (or maybe just the Apostles!) ...ONLY! This was to be a one-shot deal, never-to-be- repeated! [Hogwash! As I was Saved by Jesus Christ {not another man}, I think I should Listen to HIM - don't you?]
Well, I don't know about you and your relationship with Jesus Christ, but that "man's-conjecture" just doesn't "square" with the Reality Who Lives in me! The Jesus Christ *I* Know has a Real Agenda, and Expects me to be ON IT! AND He Knows my "address"... and just how to "get to me"! Nor is He shy about Letting me Know His Intentions where my Abiding is concerned!
My relationship with the Holy Spirit is Real! I talk to Him & He Answers me all the time, every day, on an on-going basis - continuously! Mostly, He teaches me about the Scriptures, and shows me how God Sees me (both good AND bad!). I love Him. And I know He Loves me, although I simply cannot account for why! Jesus said over & over again we'd have to have "ears" and "eyes" to hear & see with. But He also said His "sheep" would "hear" His Voice! [But when we won't Obey what we've heard... why should God Speak? That's why I say, "want more God?... *DO* the God you've GOT!"]
Check this out...: 1 Cor 2:13-15 "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing (interpreting, as fitting meaning to words - or "rightly-dividing") spiritual things with {by} spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that IS SPIRITUAL judgeth ("spiritually discerns", as above) all things, yet he himself is judged ("discerned", or seen) of no man (remains "hid-in-Christ"!)." [What is NOT "of-{from}-Faith"... is *SIN* {of/from-your-flesh!}]
Jn 3:6 (Jesus) "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that {Faith} which is born of the Spirit is spirit." If we have been Born of the Spirit of God, then Jesus says WE are Spirit! [Providing we "Walk", "Work", "Continue" and "Endure" & "Abide"!]
Gal 5:25 "If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." And if WALK, then TALK! Or what's all this God has said about a Relationship with Him? And if walk & talk, then LEARN! And if learn, then BECOME & REMAIN or "Abide" IN-CHRIST! [But we CAN begin in-Spirit {Born}, and END in the flesh {Die!}]
But does it really work? There's only one way to find out, and it doesn't include idle speculation or carnal analysis: TRY IT! [Jesus Said "ASK, SEEK, KNOCK" & "DENY-SELF-DAILY" to "FOLLOW" Him]
Either He's Real or He's Phoney (with a capital "PH"!). The best question is, "what have I got to lose?"! The Holy Spirit is Real! He's Alive! And He can actually Talk! Yessireee, He can Speak for Himself, but He *always* Speaks for Jesus Christ! He never contradicts His Written Word, but, BOY!, does He ever explain it!
I'm convinced Scripture is only God-Breathed IN PERSON! In other words, until Scripture has been God-Breathed into your spirit {Directly} by God's Holy Spirit ...it isn't Inspired {to you}! So... "Inspired" doesn't refer to the one who God used to write His words {only}: "Inspired" means Creator-->creature: DIRECT! {"Divine-Telemetry" -or- "Automatic-Pilot-Homing-Transmission"}
That means YOU! That's what Paul's talking about above! Read it again! {"Take another think!"} That's what Jesus kept Talking about! That's why God put His Holy Spirit inside you [see Ezk 36:72]: to guide and teach and mold and change and walk and talk and Love you FROM WITHIN YOU! That's what "Made In His Image" ...MEANS!
Don't you remember, in Lk 17:21 Jesus said, "... for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." And again in Mat 6:21 "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also". [What you want you choose - what you choose you become - & remain!; "sow/reap"?]
Having been "born again" of the Holy Spirit of the Living God and "Made" (Adopted as) "sons of God"; having been "Sealed" by the "Gift of the Spirit"; do we have this "Pearl of Great Price" (HIDDEN TREASURE!) within us "going to waste" (as it were) for lack of acknowledgment (unbelief) on our part? ["In earthen vessels"]
Should we neglect such a "great Salvation" [Heb 2"3] by indifference? If the Holy Spirit "Speaks" and "Shows" us (within), as Jesus said, should we not "talk", "listen", "watch for" and "learn" from Him? {As we Share His Written-Word Adventures WITH Him - AS OUR GUIDE?}
And (if we're in doubt) can we not trust the Lord enough to obey His Commands to "come unto Him", "Ask, Seek & Knock"? When was the last time you actually asked God a real question (from the heart!), -->and genuinely expected Him to Answer you - AS HE PROMISED HE WOULD? The Holy Spirit SPEAKS!
Lots of love take care
-
zen nudist
how can an all knowing god feel hurt?
if there is an all knowing god, that god cannot possibly feel what humans feel in our ignorance of reality by our comparison to false expectations.
the bible god is far too human, far to ignorant.
-
Sweetp0985
How CAN he feel any hurt from us if he already knew we were gonna hurt him/be sinners before we were even born???Before we were even thought of for that matter...SO like I asked on another thread...why does he even allow children to continue to born to sinfulness if he already knows how its going to turn out.