JWism..........I'm not worthy!

by bikerchic 25 Replies latest jw friends

frankiespeakin

Bikerc,
Nice article,, I think this "unworthyness" feeling is hard to shake with just acknowledging that it is an unreasonable or just understanding it to be wrong. Since it took many years of experience to come to the point we are now in our lives with all our negative hang-ups,,I don't think we can just lose it by an act of will or thru the use of just reasoning,, it is a start in the right direction but only a start. I remember reading some where that we have to get into the subconscious in order to change these negative parterns of thought. I think hypnotism and positive subliminal suggestions might be a good way to neutralize the "I'm not worthy syndrome.
onacruse

Ah yes. How many times Kate and I have grappled with this issue: from whence the self-perception of unworthiness derives, and what constitutes a meaningful basis to achieve a true sense of self-worth.
As willing (or, unwilling, as the case might be) participants in a high-control cult, our "worth" was measured by what we did, not by what we are. But as we move away from that constraint, we often carry with us the same parameter: what I'm worth is proved by what I do...
or, perhaps, as the pendulum swings: I'm not worth anything anyway, so I'll do whatever I want, and damn the rest of the world.
Max Weber has a thing or two to say about the social basis for this behavior, but on the more fundamental psychological level...well, for the most part, I find it best to sit back and listen.
ballistic brings out an interesting point, about evolution. On a primal level, perhaps our sense of 'unworthiness' is a natural and inevitable consequence of survival of the fittest, and the struggle for self-preservation will always imbue us with the gnawing feeling that "enough is never enough."
Much to think about re this topic...our patio will yet again be busy with conversation tonight!
Craig
Terry

Christians automatically accept the fact we are all poop in God's eyes because we inherited "sin" from our great great great great great, pant pant pant, great great Grandfather Adam.
Balderdash.
We are as good as we are able to be when we strive hard and have a spot of luck.
Religion tells us we are dust on the scales and a drop in the ocean to control us. Religion sells unworthiness. It is their stock and trade.
Religion never put a man on the moon, cured polio, eliminated smallpox, gave us anesthetics for pain, developed open heart surgery, cataract removal or invented electrical appliances and air-conditioning. Nope, weak sinful "imperfect" man did all that and more in spite of being poop in God's eyes. People are simply amazing animals with seemingly unlimited potential. But, that potential cannot be fully realised with the belief that there is something there worth working on.
Self-improvement doesn't come from people who are waiting to be rescued. The Bible and religion keep people weak and dependant and frightened and tired. It is difficult to split the atom if your nose is stuck in the book of Revelation or you are knocking doors indoctrinating the populace with nonsense.
How wonderful are you? Wonderful is as wonderful does. If you don't DO anything worth mentioning then you aren't very wonderful. We each have to get up off our saggy bottom and actually PERFORM an act worth mentioning. We can gather strength and perform the miracle of getting better and better at something each day.
It all comes down to action and education and a positive view of a realistic world in which the invisible doesn't sit on a throne somewhere counting our Brownie points.
Just my wack view of life. Take it for what it is worth and discard the rest.
Terry
onacruse

Terry, I agree with everything you say, except for:
We are as good as we are able to be when we strive hard and have a spot of luck.
We are as good as we are able to be because that's all we can be...luck and God have nothing to do with it.
"strive hard" and "luck" play right back into the psychological underpinnings of "I'm only worthy if..."
Respects,
Craig
frankiespeakin

Inner conversation:
I'm not worthy,, no I am worthy,,no your not,,yes I am,, no your not,,I am,,no your not,,am so,,am not.
Just what is being worthy all about?? How does one judge weather one is worthy or not??? Who sets the standard?? ,,,We do personally I guess(?). Negative, positive, can I have both or do I have to reject one,,or should I be 95% positive and have only 5% negative I don't know. The JW's religion alway made me feel that it was good to feel not worthy,,just a worthless slave who is doing what he ought to have done. I guess I'm worthy but worthy as in how much am I worth and so that's how worthy I am. JW's estimate their worth based on the estimation of worth the war god of the jews "jehovah of armies" places on them and to him the nations are dust on the scales,, so not very worthy is just one person,, unless he is jesus christ or abraham. Jehovah's views of humans is,, if they don't worship me like I deserve I'll just wipe out thier whole family that way everybody can have fear of me and bow before me with trembling and great fear.
Markfromcali

Perhaps a practically useful question might be can any set of standard cover all of who and what you are? If not then even if you are judged negatively that only covers a limited set of aspects, not to mention the question of who is doing the judgement - you are only worthy or not as far as they are concerned. Why buy into their opinion of you?
myauntfanny

Do we really feel worthy or unworthy? That's a thought, not a feeling, right? I think what we feel is shame or disappointment or anger or grief, and then we think "if I feel these negative things I must be unworthy". Maybe it's a habit ingrained in us to think "I am unworthy", so it's hard to kick, but we don't have to think it. We could just think "now I feel shame" or whatever it is. And the opposite of thinking you are unworthy doesn't have to be thinking you are worthy. That kind of sets up a cycle where you'll always have to be feeling one or the other, fighting against the one and struggling for the other. You can't tie worthiness to getting the best or even getting anything. Because we will always make mistakes, and we can't always get what we want. Nobody gets everything, and some hardly get anything. If we see everything in terms of unworthy and worthy then we'll always be setting ourselves up, judging ourselves for the inevitable disappointments and losses. And we'll be thinking it about others too, that this other person has lots of money and a great job, he must be worthier than I am, while that person lives in the gutter, he's way less worthy than I am. The rich person may secretly run a Colombian cocaine farm and the gutter person may have been a WWI hero, for all we know. I think all that we can reasonably say to ourselves is "I try my best, sometimes it isn't good enough, usually it is."
I'm glad you posted this topic, it really made me think.
Undecided

Unless there is some after life, it's all a waste of time anyway. You die after a few years. It seems that the real reason for life is to produce more life. Have you noticed nature? Everything seems to be created with the main desire and purpose to produce more of the same. I really wonder WHY are we here and does it matter if we are worthless or not?
As you can tell, I'm in a depressed state right now. I think my brain is beginning to fade. I can't remember names of people and things. Sometimes I can't remember how to get to places that I have been, at least it takes me awhile to bring it back. I hope it's just part of old age but my brother is 70 and can remember everything. Here I go changing the subject again, sorry.
Ken P.
Terry

Just my view, of course, but--unless we measure ourselves in terms of being an individual we simply are a drone in a hive of some sort.
To be whole and functioning persons is quite a process! Look how quickly the family we are born into starts wanting to indoctrinate us with their peculiar and provincial views about everything from God to Politics!
The programming we receive bypasses our ability to be skeptical about anything except the us vs them our group gives us. WE are good and THEY are bad is just about the essential messege of every religion and political agenda.
Education begins with objectivity---but, can escape indoctrination from family, church, school and politics to reach a point where an objective thought enters our mind???
No, most unfortunate is it that we have to become disillusioned to begin thinking rationally!
That in itself is a kind of crime. But, that is how it happens.
Teens start seeing their own parents as out-of-touch with reality and then individuations begins.
Lamentably, a teen's peer group simply takes over indoctrination and it is downhill from there.
If we could just avoid groups of any kind until we can objectively assess everything we've been told by some neutral standard! But, how many of us simply use a hand-me-down religious book like the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Koran or the Torah to do our thinking and evaluating for us?
It is vitally necessary to learn how to think BEFORE we accept standards of right and wrong and develop an agenda-based morality and join a group.
Logic is a wonderful tool; but, it isn't even taught in school unless you go for a doctorate!
Logic should be taught in kindergarten. Reading how the history of thinking has shaped men's beliefs, society and religion is vital! Aristotle had more of an influence on the Western world than anybody until Jesus. I personally think the Apostle Paul is really the man behind the curtain when we think we are listening to Jesus, but, that is another discussion. My point is--individual men with strong views influence the shape of society because they think for themselves. That can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on who is listening and how they react to it.
If you find the Buddah on the road; kill him!
Worthy? Worthiness? Am I worthy? I have to have a standard that begins with my own life. Unless I am an individual who thinks for myself and develops my tools of measuring what works and what doesn't I am at the mercy of the opinion of others. Others rule the world. Do I let those "others" measure me and simply accept their opinion? Or, do I measure myself in terms of myself; my own values and knowledge and evaluation? The difference between being a leader and a follower is quite a differenc. A follower only has to stand in a line and go through the motions that others are dictating. But, a leader must know where he is going and why and what he'll do when he gets "there".
JW's are indoctrinated to obey and not to think independantly. If that is not the definition of a programmed robot I don't know what is. An ant in an anthill stays very very busy but is not an individual. Individual's are not tolerated in such colonies. It is the work that gives value to the ant and not the other way around. So too with JW's. As long as you work for the hive you have value. When you emerge as an individual with personal needs or opinions you are a nuisance and a hindrance and you must be eliminated!
Independant thought is unworthy if you are a JW! If you ARE worthy--you don't really exist as an individual. You only have one function or you are considered worthless. Day and Night you simply must stand before the throne and repeat: Holy Holy Holy forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever..........
Lovely religion, isn't it? I'm glad I'm not worthy of it!
Terry
LittleToe

Terry:
Christians automatically accept the fact we are all poop in God's eyes...

Interesting viewpoint. I'm a Christian, yet I don't view things that way. About a third of the worlds population claims to be Christian, and I'm pretty certain not all of them feel that way. I smell a generalization
MAF:Very nicely put. That is also the gist of what I was so ineptly trying to say

JWism..........I'm not worthy!

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