Banned From the Bible

by Sweetp0985 45 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • NWT@Cutlip.Org
    [email protected]

    eljefe quoted:

    Therefore, the oldest papyri containing most of the books of the New Testament were written at least 120 years after the originals were composed, and the oldest complete New Testament manuscript postdates the original autographs by at least 220 years.

    Yes, considering how fragile those writing materials were that's quite amazing! Those of us you took two years of Latin in high school remember translating Caesar's Gallic Wars in our second year. Caesar wrote it about 40 B.C.E. and the oldest know copy is dated about 950 C.E. -- that's about 1000 years between the original and our oldest copy. During that 1000 years it was not "lost." People read and quoted from it all the time. But, because ancient writing materials were so fragile, we now have no copies of this 2000 year-old document that are much older that about 1000 years. What does that prove? It proves ancient writing material were fragile!

    It does not prove someone forged Caesar's name to the document ... nor that it has been "tampered with" during the dark ages .. nor that our extant copies are corrupt ... nor that extant copies are unreliable. So, what?

    eljefe further opined:

    I have more confidence in the "apocrypha" not having been changed than our current cannon.

    [email protected] opined:

    Welcome to the world of John Dominic Crossan! (AKA La-La-Land) If you see him, tell Historical Jesus I said, "Yo, d00d." (Oops, I forgot. His carcass fell off the cross and was eaten by dogs, so he never was buried or resurrected, was he? Oh, well. Tell Crossan I said, "Jesus is L ORD !")

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  • NWT@Cutlip.Org
    [email protected]
    Justin wrote: If Arius had won the dispute in the fourth century (which he almost did),

    If you check into it, I think you will find Athansius was banished four times (or was it five) for his views. Each time he bounced back.

    [email protected]

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  • Sweetp0985
    Sweetp0985

    NWT where can I find one of those "complete" bibles, I am very interested in seeing what's in it.I probably can find one at a bible/christian store but do I just ask them

    do you have any "complete" bibles???
  • NWT@Cutlip.Org
    [email protected]

    You can purchase just one Bible by itself. However, my favorite, when I can lift it, is the one I bought at Half-Price Books for less that $40.00 --

    The Complete Parallel Bible Containing the Old and New Testaments with the Apocryphal / Deuterocanonical Books: New Revised Standard Version, Revised English Bible, New American Bible, New Jerusalem Bible. Printed by Oxford University Press in 1993.

    Although it is printed on Bible paper, it is still more than 2.5 inches thick and contains way more than 3000 pages. The pages are double-columned. On the left pages are two Protestant translations and on the right pages are two Roman Catholic translations. Furthermore, they cover the raging debate between "literal" and "dynamic/freer" translation styles. The Protestant Bibles are the NRSV (literal) and REB (dynamic/freer) and the Roman Catholic Bibles are the NAB (literal) and NJB (dynamic/freer). Excellent cross-section. Any one of the four may be purchased as stand alone. Both literal Bibles (NRSV & NAB) are American. Both dynamic/freer Bibles (REB & NJB) are British. Whether that says something about our national differences, I'm not sure.

    The real key is to insist on a Bible with the Apocryphal / Deuterocanonical Books so you get the so-called "lost books" of the Bible. Store clerks may not know the difference, but if you demand the Roman Catholic edition, you will probably get the right thing.

    A few years ago I bought a paperback copy of NRSVwithA/D for $6.45 from CBD (http://www.christianbook.com). It's still in the shrink wrap. I found the BIG hard bound one mentioned above.

    Hope this helps,

    [email protected]

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    The

  • NWT@Cutlip.Org
    [email protected]

    Dear Sweetp0985 et al. --

    As much as I loathe pointing anyone to a Jesus Seminar publication, perhaps the most convenient collection of truly early extra-canonical Gospels is this one:

    The Complete Gospels by Robert J. Miller. The revised edition adds fragments from three more discoveries to bring the total to 20 (including the four canonical Gospels); thus, making the first edition "Complete Gospels" even more complete.

    I bought my used paperback copy over the Internet for $10.00. It may be out of print. Here's the info:

    Printed by HarperSanFrancisco in 1994. ISBN: 0-06-065587-9 -- LC: BS2552.24 -- Dewey: 226'.05208 -- LCC: 94-34585.

    Grace & Peace,

    [email protected]

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  • eljefe
    eljefe

    NWT

    It does not prove someone forged Caesar's name to the document ... nor that it has been "tampered with" during the dark ages .. nor that our extant copies are corrupt ... nor that extant copies are unreliable. So, what?

    Are you going to tell me that we have the complete book of Mark?

    Mark 16:8 So when they came out they fled from the memorial tomb, for trembling and strong emotion were gripping them. And they told nobody anything, for they were in fear.

    Even the Watchtower has admitted that we don't have the entire book of Mark. Better yet, this last verse of Mark directly opposes that of Luke or John (I can't remember which).

    When would have been a good time to alter Mark? During the period several years after Jesus' death. So if we can see that Mark was either cropped or changed, what can we say about the rest of the gospels or the entire Bible for that matter?

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