JUSTICE #15 - Parking Lot DFing

by Amazing 32 Replies latest jw friends

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    PARKING LOT DISFELLOWSHIPPING

    [I have changed the sequence of the Justice Series. I will post the other titles later.]

    One evening while getting ready to go Shepherding, I got a call from a JW man who told me that his teenage daughter (about 17) was about to leave the organization, and he and his wife needed me to come over and talk with her right away. I agreed because I knew the girl and she felt she could trust me. I brought along another Elder who is a very kind individual, and I knew he would be gentle in this situation.

    The girl, Sister S, had been Reg. Pioneering for about a year or so. She was well liked and popular. She was still in her last year of high school, and seem to do well there too. In addition to this, her family seemed like good well-adjusted people, financially stable, and well liked. I had known the family since the girl was a toddler, and became friends with the parents. Their daughter was a pretty girl, so the boys tended to hang around her. I feared that she may have gotten into some kind of sexual trouble and was so ashamed that she wanted to quit being a JW. I heard that a non-JW boy was very attracted to her, and she felt interest in him as well.

    The Shepherding Call. We arrived early in the evening, about 6:30 PM. The dad greeted us at the door, his voice shaking, and I could see he had been crying. He was a physically strong man who worked in the moving industry. It was hard to see such a vigorous individual so broken. His wife, likewise looked unhappy, but she seemed somewhat distant, and just shook her head and looked down. We sat down and they served coffee. Soon, their daughter, Sister S, came out and took a seat on the floor by her dad. Sister S did not look upset or happy. Rather, she looked stunned, almost expressionless, like a deer on the road staring at the headlights of oncoming cars.

    The other Elder started off with light chat. Good move. Then he asked what the problem was. Sister S said she thought that I was coming by myself and did not know I invited the other Elder. I apologized and asked if she prefer he leave and I could stay. The other Elder was agreeable. But she decided that he was a good choice and said he could stay.

    She then proceeded to tell us that she did not want to be a JW anymore. We talked about this and asked a lot of questions, but could not seem to get any clear answers. She did admit to being involved with a non-JW boy, but that they had not done anything immoral yet. She then cried, and we discovered that her parents were sending her away to live with her grandparents. She did not want to go.

    Her parents, especially her dad, opened up and admitted many errors they made in the past and did so humbly to help their daughter understand that everyone has flaws and makes mistakes. They wanted her to feel that she was not alone, and that they understood. This too was a good move and seem to help.

    We did something unique in our Elder advice. We both admitted that the JW life can be most strenuous, especially on younger JWs like her. Rather than giving the standard advice to attend meetings and do more in Service, we encouraged her to slow down, and take time away from Pioneering and even meetings. We also said that maybe living with the grandparents for a few months during the summer might help her get a new perspective. We told her we would support whatever decision she made, and assured her that she is still loved and valued in the congregation. This approach really impressed Sister S, such that she said that she knew she was doing the right thing in requesting me, and she was also pleased that the other Elder joined me and validated the same advice.

    We were there about 3 hours. When we left, she gave us a big hug and thanked us for taking the pressure off. Her parents, both in tears by now were most appreciative, and hugged us too. As we drove away, we both felt that we did the right thing in the kind approach and felt that it just may work out well in time.

    About two weeks later: I did not see Sister S at the meetings or in Service. In fact no one had seen much of her. But I reasoned that she was taking our advice and just lying low for a while. But then, I get a letter in the mail from her. In the letter she wrote about how much she appreciated my efforts and did not want me to think badly of her, but she had decided to follow through with her decision to Disassociate herself. She asked that I respect her decision and not make any effort to try and get her back into the organization. I should have done as she asked, but no, I couldn’t let this go without at least one more try to talk with her.

    The other Elder and I went to see her parents and learned that she had given them the same kind of letter, and that she had moved out and went to live with a ‘Worldly’ family. Her parents also said that she had taken money from the family safe and a few other valuables from the house without permission. They used the word ‘theft.’

    We tracked her down: It took about a week, but her parents finally found where she was living. The other Elder and I went over to the ‘worldly’ people’s house and asked for Sister S. We asked if we could just speak with her briefly. The non-JW woman who answered the door began yelling at us to stop harassing Sister S, and demanded that we get off of her property. In this case, while I can now understand as an ex-JW why she would not be comfortable with our calling there, I think that she was wrong to scream, and that we acted with reason. And truly, I just wanted an opportunity to talk and try and understand. But that was not to be.

    Another week goes by: I get a certified letter at my home on a Saturday. This time, the letter is typed, and while it was signed by Sister S, it was clearly not her writing style and was written in very threatening language. It basically demanded that we stop harassing her, otherwise she will take legal action against us and the congregation and possibly the Watch Tower Society.

    We in no way were harassing her. One attempt to talk to her is not an act of harassment. The letter bore all the marks that it was written for her, and she merely signed it. If she wrote it, she must have been coached. I did not mind that she wanted to take a strong stand, but I felt very bad that she would accuse us of harassment and make such strong threats, and allow herself to be so coached by people who did not understand or care about our good motives.

    One more try again: Yes, I was angry at what was going down. I was more angry that Sister S was being coached and within the protection of this mean ‘worldly’ family. I was pissed that she took off and did not at least allow us some additional discussion. I was also hurt at her allegations of harassment, and could not understand this accusation. So, I get together with the other Elder and we decide to write a letter warning Sister S that she has been accused of stealing and lying, and that if she fails to respond we will have to take DFing action. The idea was that maybe the fear of DFing, or the allegation by her parents that she had stolen from them and lied to them would cause her to at least meet with us. I did not really want to see her DF’d.

    We gave the letter to the parents to let their daughter read when she stopped by the home to visit. We asked that they not let Sister S take the letter, because of her threat of a lawsuit. She did stop by and visit and asked for more money. While there she did read the letter. She left them and went back to continue her stay with the ‘worldly’ family.

    The Parking Lot DFing is now primed: Just before the Tuesday night TMS starts, Sister S parents approach me and the other Elder and we talk in the back room. They are angry because their daughter took money and some possessions and is now living with ‘worldly’ people. They demand action, and feel that the congregation needs to do something. I was surprised by their changed spirit from that of concern and care for their daughter, to one of practically wanting to execute her. Nevertheless, the other Elder and myself said we would do what we could.

    The JC is set up: I found a third Elder who was also a kind brother. My hope was that we would talk and find a way to simply get the parents to cool off for a while, and take a wait and see attitude. The TMS was now in progress. We got the parents and went outside into the parking lot because both schools were using up all the private space.

    We stood by the northwest corner of the Kingdom Hall, and because we have windows, the brothers and sisters in the Hall could see us talking. Yes, a JC in session in front of the whole congregation, but they could not hear what we said. We opened the JC with prayer. Of course we ask for Jehovah’s spirit and guidance and wisdom in deciding how to deal with Sister S. Funny thing, Sister S is not even there.

    We start at about 7:35PM, or about 35 minutes into the TMS. This giver us about 10 minutes to make a decision. The evidence presented? Her parents testify that she stole from them and lied to them. They return our letter to Sister S back to me. They testify that she read the letter and made no real response. She left without getting any more money.

    Elders talk alone: We asked the parents to step back into the Hall and wait in the entry way. We look around to see if possibly Sister S may have shown up and we could talk to her. Yea, right! What a brain-dead way to act. But it was an official attempt to give her one last chance. We discussed that since she was now aware of the allegations, and read our letter to her warning of DFing, and also sent us two letters requesting to be Disassociated, and given the testimony of her parents, and that we had no evidence that she denied any of this, that we could see no alternative but to take DFing action.

    [The Society sometime later stated that when a person writes a letter of Disassociation, there is no need to pursue DFing action. For the most part Elders were already applying that standard. But at times, in situations where DFing could have been an option, Elders used to take that action rather than let the DA stand. The Society stopped this.]

    We closed with prayer, and invited the parents back outside to tell them the decision. Again, keep in mind that the whole congregation is watching us. The parents stand there as we inform them of the decision to Disfellowship their daughter. They start crying, the husband holds his wife, and the JWs inside the Hall are staring at us all, likely wondering what in the hell was going on. Then an MS realized that this was likely a JC, and went over and closed the curtains, but it was too late.

    The Announcement: We all walk into the Hall as the TMS ends, and the song for the Service meeting begins. I walk up to the platform, and inform the MS to invite me onto the stage right after the song. As the song ends, and everyone takes their seats, I am invited up to make a "special" announcement.

    I walked up to the platform, and stand at the microphone. All eyes are on me and the Hall is dead silent. They all knew good and well that something like this was going down, but they looked eager to hear this “special” announcement, as though there was something really new and important about to be revealed from the Society. I then say, “A Judicial Committed of the congregation informs the congregation that Sister S is now Disfellowshipped.”

    I look out at the audience for a brief moment and see a mixture of shock, a few crying, and some shaking their heads as though they were miffed that Satan claimed another young JW. I could see some talking and whispering in ears. The parents, instead of crying like they did earlier, looked on with a blank stare as many looked at them.

    I walked back down to my seat. As the meeting continued, I walked to the back of the Hall, and of course the curiosity seekers came up and asked what happened, and if the meeting outside the window in the parking lot was what this was all about. I just said I couldn’t talk about it.

    Reflection I stood there, and asked myself what we thought we were really accomplishing here. Okay, the young lady didn’t want to be a JW. She took a few bucks from the parents, and as people do at times, she was not totally truthful with them, but is this what we as Jehovah’s Witnesses are all about? Is this what really make us clean before God? - Amazing

  • Francois
    Francois

    Yes sir, you've got it defined aright. That's what Jehovah's Witnesses are all about: legalisms, hair-splitting organizational nit-picking, applying a standard of "justice" totally bereft of anything resembling the tempering quality of mercy, the accepting quality of love.

    This is a description of a religion operated like what it has become, a bureaucracy - complete with bureaucrats for elders, and rigid, inflexible "organizational" rules instead of the fluid give and take of human children of god attempting to pursue his will as best as they can understand it.

    It's really disheartening, isn't it?

    Francois

    My $0.02

  • Had Enough
    Had Enough

    Hello Amazing:

    As I read this and all your other Justice Series, I at first find myself thinking, "where is the identifying love, and the total unity of thought and worship, and the holy spirit that is supposed to be directing every move of the org."....and then I remember...it was never there in the first place or all these horrendous injustices would not have taken place.

    How can God look at this org as his representatives on earth caring for his sheep? Those scattered elders that did exist that tried to lovingly help the r&f were shackled by rules and regulations, and still are. Yes the WTS claims "they don't have rules, only principles" as was said at our last CA, but what a load of bunk that is.

    As Francoise said, it truly is disheartening.....but I continue to be grateful to you for enlightening us further with your Justice Series. Thank you again.

    Had Enough

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Francois and HadEnough: I agree, these experiences are disheartening. And, when you consider these few situation, I have more to post. And, I am just one among many that have or still are serving ... think of all the tens of thousands of potential injustices over the years, and continuing as we speak. Someday, maybe, I hope, JWs will wake up and get free of this ball and chain. - Amazing

  • AngelofMuZiC
    AngelofMuZiC

    Wow, what a story!! It brings back memories of how horrible i was as a JW, when I knew someone was going to be Df'd, waiting eagerly to hear it on the platform. It's a real shame now that I look back.
    They are so cruel and insensitive. They hardly follow the God of Mercy and Loving-kindness.
    My Regards,
    Joanne

  • AngelofMuZiC
    AngelofMuZiC

    where can I find your other Justice postings? The stories are interesting, and I want to read more
    Joanne

  • zev
    zev

    yeah me too...
    when i come here, i look for the stories posted by amazing first.

    great stuff you right, love the way you detail the storys.

    i look foward to many more.

    Gramps
    __
    zev
    Now feeling the pain of sitting on the pickets class.

  • humble
    humble

    Amazing:

    You say that you went up to the platform and gave the announcement after the JC. What happened to the 7 day period for the right to appeal? I think that this case does not show that Jehovah's Witnesses are unloving, but that you were. It seems that as elders, you were hurt by that fact that Sister S did not listen to your counsel, so you had to take some sort of action. You say that you met as a JC in the parking lot because all rooms were taken. Couldn't you have waited to meet at another time? You hurried because you were pressured by the parents, not because you were following Society guidelines. Don't blame an organization for the mistakes of a few imperfect men, such as yourself.

  • BoozeRunner
    BoozeRunner

    Hi Humble,
    You make some interesting points.
    The elders did rush to judgement it seems, prompted by the parents.
    Yes, imperfect elders DO make mistakes.
    However, I am curious to know if the appeal aspect of judicial cases were in effect at the time. Amazing will have to answer that one for us tho.
    Also, I dont know if you have followed the entire Justice Series, but the whole idea behind them is to show the inconsistency of the whole process. They also show that imperfect men, using the WTS guidelines are ill-equipped to render effective help when faced with with these situations.
    And, if you have been reading posts that deal with how the WTS routinely covers up cases of child molestation when it comes to elders, it shows the double standard that is applied R&F vs. ELDERS.
    That is in stark contrast to the scriptures which show that those in positions of responsibility are to be held to a high standard of morality, and therefore punished accordingly. Even secular governments follow this principle to some degree.
    Keep reading Humble, yu may be surprised at what you learn.

    Boozy

  • Mommie Dark
    Mommie Dark

    I've followed this series with interest. This time, though, it seems to me that the whole thing could have been avoided if you and your elder cronies had just acceded to the girl's expressed wishes and left her the hell alone!

    Among all the many words posted, folks praising you seem to ignore this bit:

    " I get a certified letter at my home on a Saturday. This time, the letter is typed, and while it was signed by Sister S, it was clearly not her writing style and was written in very threatening language. It basically demanded that we stop harassing her, otherwise she will take legal action against us and the congregation and possibly the Watch Tower Society.

    We in no way were harassing her."

    YES YOU WERE! She had written you with her decision, why did you hassle her again after receiving this official warning?

    "One attempt to talk to her is not an act of harassment."

    YES IT IS! Your rationalizations after the fact are pretty meaningless. She told you to leave her alone; you in your elder arrogance decided her wishes meant nothing.

    "The letter bore all the marks that it was written for her, and she merely signed it. If she wrote it, she must have been coached."

    Irrelevant speculation! Many JWs have asked someone else to help them write letters in their dealings with the Society. That's no excuse to dog the child further!

    "I did not mind that she wanted to take a strong stand, but I felt very bad that she would accuse us of harassment and make such strong threats, and allow herself to be so coached by people who did not understand or care about our good motives."

    Too bad for your feelings! You were WRONG and no amount of justification will make it right. Your 'good' motives? Your ARROGANT PATERNALISTIC HIERARCHICAL motives! She felt harrassed. WHy are your feelings of more value than hers?

    "One more try again: Yes, I was angry at what was going down."

    BINGO! You were angry, you sought revenge.

    "I was more angry that Sister S was being coached and within the protection of this mean ‘worldly’ family. I was pissed that she took off and did not at least allow us some additional discussion. I was also hurt at her allegations of harassment, and could not understand this accusation. So, I get together with the other Elder and we decide to write a letter warning Sister S that she has been accused of stealing and lying, and that if she fails to respond we will have to take DFing action."

    So, you sought to exercise some further definitive control over the girl, show her who's boss, threaten her until she coughs up some respect for you. And to slap at that awful worldly woman, how dare she try to help the kid protect herself from elders like you!

    PHOOEY!!!!

    This one IMO seriously dents your credibility. You took action based on anger and hurt feelings, and totally discounted the person in favor of swift revenge.

    No means NO in any language. You should be ashamed to talk about 'justice' in this incident. YOu were a genuine Society boy through and through in this one.

    I'll be viewing further 'justice' posts from you with a whole shaker of salt.

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