To: Sue in UK and all Dubs

by Amazing 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Sue: You commented to my post about Elders sins, by saying that the CO may have been giving his own opinion. The typical JW response is to always direct the problems identified to some individual or to some local problems not common among other JWs. Here are some important points that you and other Dubs need to understand:

    1. First and foremost, cult psuchology is always such that when the member sees a conflict in teaching or doctrine, they are 'programmed' to not blame the leaders, but the individual members, or themselves. Abused women do the same thing with abusive husbands.

    2. Ex-Jws and some JWs still in the Orgnaization have been able to confirm experiences over many nations, thus eliminating the possibility that a problem is just with an individual or just in a local congregation.

    3. The Society, especially since 1980 when the major shake-up happened in New York, has strictly and directly controlled Elders, COs, and DOs. It used to be, for example, Elders could modify a talk outline with additional research, etc. This was even encouraged at one time to 'personalize' an outline to an Elder's taste. Now, when an Elder gives a Public Talk, at home or at another congregation, another Elder is assigned to follow the outline, and make sure he does not stray. If he does, he is talked to in the back room after the meeting, and his home congregation is notified. Likewise, COs and DOs are strictly trained, and when you attend the KM School for Elders, the CO literally reads from the Society outlines for the program. When Elders from around the country talk and visit on the phone, they confirm the identical nature of these programs.

    Therefore, the CO at Woodburn, Oregon was NOT giving his own opinion especially with the DO there and about 500 other Elders. He was following an outline. Also, they referenced the Kingdom Ministry that I quoted above. All you have to do is get a copy and read it verbatum. The Society point blank made those stipulations!

    The secret Elders manual called "Shepherds of the Flock" is a compilation of these kinds of published points that most JWs don't pay much attention to ... and the Flock book also contains similar material from Watchtower magazines, the "organization" book, and some material from the Society not published to the JWs in general. It is formatted in a way so that Elders can make a quick reference to some topic, mostly on JC matters. In fact, almost the whole point of the "Flock" book is to provide legislation regarding sin. Kind of like the books and traditions that Jesus condemned.

    The book is often notated by Elders when attending KM Schools and this is done at strict guidance of the CO and DO. They dictate the exact language that Elders are to add to specific points and pages in the "Flock" book. Eventually, the Society will revise the book, and those exact points are incorporated. So, there is virtually no chance for error on the part of individuals or some local unique situation.

    The problem with the Society is nationwide, worldwide, and is sickening, and that is why genuine Christians have had to leave that religion in pursuit of truth, honesty, and concern for people, and follow Jesus Christ. The Watch Tower religion is a proven fraud, and a legalistic and pharisaical religion.

    It started out with some nice ideas under Russell, but had become too corrupt, to the point that they now have a protected Clergy Class, a Man of Lawlessness Class running their religion. These men worked their way into positions of power, DF'd or removed good honest genuine Christians like Ray Franz (back in the days when being a JW was almost fun), and they persecute ex-JWs, lie about us, and say every sort of vile and wicked thing about us. So, we the King Davis Class, along with our associates, are in hiding until the Saul Class is brought down by God.

    Seriously, JWs need to wake up, because the Watch Tower system is lost, and they need to find a better home. - Amazing

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    PS: I see that Sue in the UK has posted here on JWD 26 times including today, even in spite of her claim that she felt mislead and was looking for forums that were stricly made up of JWs loyal to the Watch Tower Society. In spite of Sue's response to many other posts, she has never responded to my questions to her in other posts, nor to this post. I wonder why?

    Could it be that what I and others have presented to her is too sifficult to answer, and she must avoid us? Or maybe she just did not see this post? So, I am bringing it to the top for her benefit. It should be about 7:00 PM in the UK right now as I write this PS. So Sue should be home from work and have read this by now. Time will tell whether she can make any meaningful response.

    Finally, Sue, this is not done to be irritating to you. But, you opened up your comments on this board in a way that suggested negativity about your views of the rest of us, name-calling us 'apostates.' This does not anger me, but I believe that it is reasonable that we discuss this and my questions to you, to accertain what you think and believe, and if you are truly a loyal Dub, or simply having fun. Either way is fine. - Amazing

  • Winston Smith
    Winston Smith

    Amazing,

    I remember writing this example verbatem as you have described when I served as an elder atttending the KM school out here on the east coast in the early 90's. "What the HELL is this all about?" was my initial reaction. Looking back, the whole experience was surreal. Never looked at the Society in the same light again. And with your corobboration, it is clear that this was NOT the opinion of a rogue CO.

    -Winston

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Winston: Thanks for the confirmation. It seems that Sue in the UK is ducking the tough questions, and evading this post. Fred Hall is giving her support and trying to make her believe that she is making our blood boil. The truth is that since she not responding, she is the one whose blood is boiling in shame and fear. It will be interesting to see if she will ever respond, and what kind of response she will give. Thanks again. - Amazing

  • reagan_oconnor
    reagan_oconnor

    She states that she is not a Witless, yet when open_mind asked a question of her and/or Fred on another thread, she certainly replied. I want to know, if she *isn't* a Witless, how can she speak so authoritatively on JW doctrine?

    Just like a Witless, unable to respond to the "meaty" issues. Can't stomach more than the curdled milk that they're fed.

    She's certainly on her way, dodging questions as she has.

    --Reagan

    "I am the master of my fate; I am the captain of my soul."

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Reagan: I was not aware that Sue might possibly not be a JW. She presented herself in a way that led me to believe she was. I do hope she does not misread my posts to her, and think that I am getting all over her about her comments.

    If she is a Dub, then she should be able to answer the issues presented, or at least try to deal directly with them. If she is not a Dub, she should say so, even if she is sympathetic to the Dub beliefs. In this case, she should be even more free to address the issues presented. If she had a good defense for the Watch Tower faith, then this is a good time to express it.

    Somehow, I have this funny feeling that she will not respond, largely because to do so would mean facing hard facts that would force her to admit that the Watch Tower Society and its teachings are a fraud. It will be interesting to see what she does. Thanks again. - Amazing.

  • Prisca
    Prisca

    Amazing,

    I appreciate the logical and thorough way you present the facts regarding the WTS and why it is the way it is.

    I'm bringing this thread to the top not for Sue or any other JW's benefit, but for the benefit for all, because I think you have brought some great points!!

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    Amazing,

    Me too! Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Ozzie

    "Truth persuades by teaching, but does not teach by persuading."
    TERTULLIAN, Adversus Valentinianos

  • Sue
    Sue

    I keep telling you.
    I am not a Jehovah's Witness.
    I have no arguments to offer.

    Here is a question: Will Michael Schumacher win the F1 championship in 2001?
    a second: Will BMW Williams get second place in the manufactures placements?

  • AngelofMuZiC
    AngelofMuZiC

    Well then 'Sue', if that is what you wish to be called, then what exactly is your purpose for being here? If you aren't a witness or ex-witness, then what the heck are you? And, why do you keep playing silly games? My suggestion to you is to start explaining!
    My Regards,
    Joanne

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