About Fallacy and Critiquing Conclusions or Argument Form

by Marvin Shilmer 16 Replies latest jw friends

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

    Hey, Tom

    One thing I have noticed is that not all treatments on the subject completely agree.

    Yes, this is true. I believe the reason for this boils down to two things, 1) word meanings and 2) the philosophical question of how logic intertwines with human perception and learning. Issues related to these two subjects lead some logicians to champion what they call fuzzy logic.

    Regarding inductive and deductive argument forms, I believe a better definition is one that says an deductive argument is one which asserts its conclusion is absolute and an inductive argument is one that asserts its conclusion is a probability. We must also avoid the nitpicker mentality that takes language that reads as absolute when the average person understand it as stating a probability.

    Marvin Shilmer

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

    Hey, Farkel

    Tom has not presented a logical fallacy when his argument concluded, "The temperature will exceed 110 next month." This is because his argument was admittedly an inductive one, which means he was stating a probability, which you agree with.

    As for Tom's premise of the temperature in July for the historical Phoenix, you can dispute the veracity of the premise but it is not fallacious to assume a premise for sake of conclusion. Tom stated his premises as facts, which if true makes his conclusion valid, which means the argument form is not fallacious.

    Marvin Shilmer

  • TD
    TD

    Farkel,

    :I'm sure you understand the weak, but maybe plausible foundation you've stated as FACT.

    Exactly!

    The premises do not guarantee the conclusion. The conclusion is an inductive hypothesis.

    It was an example of how an inductive argument could take the form of a deductive argument.

    The point was that the classical definitions of inductive and deductive arguments are considered outdated.

    As an aside, one of the things that amuses me about the Witnesess is how basically the same thing is often apparent in their literature. ----"Since Adam was perfect, and since perfect people do not change their mind once they have made it up, we KNOW blah blah blah...."

  • waiting
    waiting

    Welllllll, hey, Marvin.

    Nice to see you 'round here again - hope all's going well? Haven't read this marvelous thread yet as I'm at work goofing off. But as soon as I saw your name, I checked the date, and sure 'nuff! You're still here.

    Will come back later and diligently read. Thanks.

    waiting

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    Marvin,

    : Do you disagree that the conclusions of deductive reasoning are always contained in its premises? If you believe the conclusions of deductive arguments are not contained in the premises then what basis is there to deduce the conclusion from the premises?

    I guess it's a matter of the way you worded your question. I'm not trying to nitpick mind you, but I'm stuck on the phrase "always CONTAINED in its premises."

    Here's what I mean:

    All blonds are sexy.
    Suzie is not sexy.

    Now from these premises, we can deduce that Suzie is not a blond, but I don't see how that conclusion is CONTAINED in those premises. I can see how it is DERIVED, though. Circular arguments on the otherhand STATE the conclusion in the premises. I think we are still on the same page though, because if there was never enough evidence to derive a conclusion there would be no such thing as deductive reasoning.

    : Regarding inductive and deductive argument forms, I believe a better definition is one that says an deductive argument is one which asserts its conclusion is absolute and an inductive argument is one that asserts its conclusion is a probability.

    Right. Another way to put this is that inductive reasoning goes from the specific to the general. Deductive reasoning goes from the general to the specific.

    Farkel

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

    Hello, Farkel

    You write:

    All blonds are sexy.
    Suzie is not sexy.
    Now from these premises, we can deduce that Suzie is not a blond, but I don't see how that conclusion is CONTAINED in those premises. I can see how it is DERIVED, though. Circular arguments on the otherhand STATE the conclusion in the premises. I think we are still on the same page though, because if there was never enough evidence to derive a conclusion there would be no such thing as deductive reasoning.

    That Susie is not blonde is contained in the first premise because to know all blondes are sexy would mean all blondes had been observed and Suzie would not have been observed as a blonde, which means to know the first premise is to know Suzie is not blonde. This mean that, for the first premise to have any veracity would mean that the conclusion that Suzie is not blonde was already known. In the minds of some past logicians this made the syllogism worthless as a means of proving a conclusion. The concern was the syllogism was reduced to saying what is already known, which would make it seem like a dressed up version of begging the question.

    Here is another example:

    1) All bachelorettes are unmarried

    2) Mary is a bachelorette

    3) Mary is unmarried

    This syllogism has a major premise we do not need to observe since by definition bachelorettes are unmarried. But there is still a degree of circularity in the reasoning because the only way we could know Mary is a bachelorette (the second premise!) is to first know Mary is unmarried. If we did not know Mary is unmarried then we could not possibly know Mary is a bachelorette. This means the entire syllogism is no more than an exercise to tell what must already be known to tell it.

    I am not sharing this information to infer that deductive argumentation is worthless or anything but precise in how it functions and helps us. I am only sharing part of the philosophical thinking that has led to what we know and use today as deductive logic. This history does not in any way diminish deductive logic but rather knowing it and understanding its resolution only strengthens the confidence we should have in this form of logical thinking.

    The real value of deductive logical form, and the resolution of the problem above, is that it demonstrates something we may not have noticed otherwise. I emphasize "may" because conclusions are contained in the premises of categorical syllogism. Nevertheless, deductive reasoning helps us because it does just what it says, it deduces. In the case of deductive reasoning we can deduce what is already a fact but has went unnoticed until now to us. But when we use deductive logic we are most often using it to help someone else see what is a fact but has went unnoticed to them, for whatever reason. This is why we do not use deductive logic to convince ourselves of what we already know (circular at its worst!) but rather to build awareness of facts we can deduce from what we already know. Of course we also use deductive thinking to teach others.

    A bonus feature of deductive logic is its conclusiveness.

    Marvin Shilmer

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

    Howdy, Waiting!

    I still remember sharing the sofa with you over in Florida. We'll just let the readers here wonder what that means. It was nice having your husband in the room with us too, by the way.

    Marvin Shilmer

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