Proof There is No Jehovah

new light

If you believe in Jehovah as portrayed in the bible, you believe that you are a creature possessing free will. You don't believe in fate or predestination. You believe that Jehovah selectively answers prayers. Doesn't answering prayers involve a divine alteration of events? Wouldn't making a person think a certain thought or turn their car to the right negate the whole idea of free will?

If god answers prayers, we automatically do not all have free will. If we do all truly have free will, god can't answer our prayers because doing so would be interference with our freedom, not so much with the receiver, but the person who is unknowingly moved to grant the request, assuming the prayer was for something physically tangible. Why worship something that gives nothing in return?

Either god does answer prayers and we are all nothing more than meat puppets on strings, or there is no involved god and we truly do hve free will.

Like Rush, "I will choose free will."

LittleToe

There are many constraints in life.
True and absolute "free will" is an illusion. There are only degrees of limited choices.

Therefore I would submit that your premise is flawed

new light

True and absolute "free will" is an illusion. There are only degrees of limited choices.

By "free will", I meant the ability to make choices and act upon them without interference from higher being(s). I welcome any opinions, but let's not try and dismantle this thing by taking trivial potshots at supposed flaws. Stand up to the idea face to face and argue it fairly. Please don't take the straw man approach.

frenchbabyface

Anyway what you said NL make sense (to me)
and appearently it is not a choice we just have it (free will)

in a new york bethel minute

new light, have u ever asked a friend for a favor? why does the fact that we can't see God or the fact that he is much stronger and wiser and, well, better than us have anything to do with our free will if he were to help us? he didnt make you ask for something, and he might not give you what you're asking for. And maybe if you thought he did answer your prayer(s), it would be just an illusion (like when my mother prays for me to cut the grass and then i do it because i was going to anyways). i dont think prayer and answers to prayers has anything to do with free will. it doesnt make us robots if we get help from our maker.

The NEWEST betheLIGHT

Leolaia

I love these WT presidents avatars..... Russell smokin' and da devilish Judge...

frenchbabyface

INYBT make sens too

in a new york bethel minute

thank you leolaia and merci frenchbabyface

new light

it doesnt make us robots if we get help from our maker.

What if you couldn't afford to feed your children, pray to god for help, and a bag of groceries appears on your doorstep, courtesy of a good friend. If god did answer your prayer here, he implanted the thought into your friend's head to buy the food. Therefore, your friend's free will, free mind was indeed tampered with.

I realize there is a ton of scientific evidence backing up the power of prayer. The results, however, are even across the board, even though many different gods are approached. Perhaps prayer taps into superconscious energy we do not fully perceive, not into a clumsily put together heavenly hero.

I'm not saying there is no creator, as I truthfully have no idea. What I do know is that I have not experienced Jehovah since I took off the blinders. In spite of countless pleas for even the slightest sign, god is no where to be found. All I wanted was a reason to believe that went beyond simple emotion, and it has been denied. Sorry, but I need more than blind faith on which to base a belief. Surely, the almighty of the universe, our creator and the source of love and wisdom would understand that.

No matter how much I tried to change, how much I prayed, I couldn't and still can't stop thinking that believers are simply fooling themselves.

tink

Why worship something that gives nothing in return?

i just thought this was kind of funny.

if you're only worshipping god because you anticipate getting something in return, isn't your worship sort of hollow? i mean, i realize that, in my estimation, the majority of people who call themselves religious worship in this way, whether they realize/acknowledge it or not. but to me, if you TRULY believe in god, your worship does not hinge on return favors. you'll worship and give glory to him because essentially that's what you were created to do; and you'll do it even if there is no tangible reward.

i know that really wasn't your point at all, but i just felt like commenting. sorry if it's a bit off-track.

Proof There is No Jehovah

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