The Ebla verison of the Dragon/Serpent Conflict Myth

by Leolaia 14 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  JCanon

  Hi Leolaia:

  This still works!!!!

  You would like to view the conflict as something that happened in a rebellion of Satan after God created the cosmos, but the primary result of the conflict is Creation itself -- Creation occurred through such a conflict between the creator-god and the chaos entity, yet the conflict is also part of competition in the divine pantheon.

  This goes back to the original issues of why there was creation. The esoteric (expanded) Biblical version of why God created the physical universe was because Satan was causing chaos in heaven. But in heaven, there were no rules, no "sins", no laws to be broken essentially. You know, no murder or "fornication". God saw this tendency and in order to effectively clean it up, he had to create the PHYSICAL UNIVERSE, something below the seven, a world of six. Man's world. But in that world there were consequences for ACTIONS. There was the possibility of SIN since God could apply laws and restrictions.

  Thus God created the physical universe, brought the various planets together into the solar system and set up a "perfect world" but with some restrictions on Adam and Eve. Simply "don't eat of two trees". It seems this was a test for Adam and Eve but really, it was a test for Satan. This was his chance to "act out" his chaotic disposition. It's as if God perceived this murderous and rebellious spirit in Satan, inactionable in heaven as an angel, but possible to act out on the earth. When given the chance to murder mankind he couldn't resist. Thus the real test was of Satan and the angels. Likewise the angels who came down from heaven to have sex with the beautiful daughters of men. Angels could materialize bodies if they wanted to or anything else and have "sex" with other angels if they wanted. But god's restriction against angels and man mixing was a chance to REBEL and challenge god.

  So in a sense, creating man and the physical universe was a way of cleansing the heavens, since those with bad motive who could not correct it and act it out would now be punished.

  BUT IT WAS STILL A TRICK! Satan thought that he was murdering all of Adam's children by getting Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit. Which he did. But what is "death" if it's only temporary? So what Satan didn't know about was the RASNSOM SACRIFICE RULE. That is, while all of Adam's children by God's law were condemned to death, and thus Satan as well for this act of rebellion, God allowed Christ to come to the earth and be born as a perfect man and then willing die, giving up his right to his perfect children in exchange for adopting Adam's children. This gave Adam's children an equal chance to be obedient and thus have life. So in the end, after all is said and done, pretty much the children of Adam who would have gotten everalsting life will still get it. But part of this process was first to have the earth's equivalant population of Adam's children born first into an imperfect world for 6000 years, then a 1000 years under Christ's rule. After that there would be a judgment day and based upon all that history, whether someone qualified for life or death would be determined. So it all works out. Sure Satan murdered all of Adam's children and then God made it a requirement that ALL his servants die if they wanted life, including his son. Only he would raise up whom he wanted. Thus in a sense, the only way to get rid of Satan legitimately was to kill everybody, then bring back whom he wanted.

  That's what I alluded to this baby killing ritual was about. Satan mocked God in having the babies killed and "pass through the fire" since God was requiring all his children to now pass through the fire, so that only those who love him would be granted life. "He who tries to hold onto his soul will lose it. He who gives it up will get it back again." So you see, it was an ULTIMATE TRICK to get rid of Satan with the "death" penalty. Satan was willing to die and commit suicide in order to stage his rebellion and make his point, but he wasn't going to go alone. He was going to drag as many of God's potential loved ones with him, meaning all of mankind. And it worked. All of mankind would die. Only, what is "death" if it's only temporary? "Death, where is your STING?" (1 Cor 15). Death has no sting if it's temporary. But for Satan it will be permanent.

  THEREFORE, this initial battle before creation might reference the state of heaven precreation, in that Satan had already begun to show rebellion and chaos.

  But you must imagine heaven in this sense as god created it. Like a nice magical forest with lots of cut little winged fairies. That's what the angels were like--little lightening bugs. All they could really do is be mischievious, there wasn't really anything for them to DO that had any great consequences. Sin and law did not exist. If there are no laws to break, you can't break any laws. And no death. So the physical universe was created, with LAWS, SIN and CONSEQUENCES but for BOTH angels and man.

  Interesting that this is understood way back then and comes through in these myths. Of course, my academic position is that Noah at the time of the flood would have known these details and understood them and thus shared them with his children. Certainly, Noah would have understood pehaps the entire story of what happened, even in heaven before the earth was created, and so later on, in "pagan" cultures this story got told in one version or another. But it's generally consistent with what I believe the Bible indicates occurred.

  Interesting how Satan becomes a JOKE now. He thought he'd trick God, mock his DEATH rule, very willingly and gladly die for his own cause, but to make his point he'd kill a lot of people, both innocent and wicked. But in the end, the people who die under Adamic sin who are not considered eligible for the resurrection and eternal life were the same ones who were going to die and rebel anyway, just like 1/3rd of the angels rebelled. This God was just not their cup of tea. So who really did Satan kill? Everybody, yes, but really nobody since their deaths were only temporary. But Satan's death is not temporary. That's why the "lake of fire" is described as being hot and burning forever and ever and tormenting. It's tormenting that some have to remain dead forever, whereas others were only dead temporarily. That's Satan's torment and the torment of those who rebel against God.

  So this is really great! THANK YOU!!! This, to me, presuming Noah knew the background of why there was creation and passed it onto later generations, confirms that Satan rebelled against god BEFORE the earth was created, or at least was causing the potential "chaos" with no way to check it, the result being the creation of the physical universe which in essence trapped Satan, by his own bonds and evil intent and condemened him, which fits the story.

  Also of note is the consistent theme of the "beloved son". And yes, Zeus the "father GOD" and the "Storm God" is very much the concept God portraysof himself as far as physical imagery, so that also fits.

  Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. These are not "original myths" of various cultures, but a reflection "Noachian" folklore about the creation of the physical universe. This story does not conflict with the Bible but is consistent with it.

  Thanks, again!!

  JC
• 

  JCanon

  Hi Leolaia:

  I still wonder why are we so ignorant of Eblaite literature and why it isn't any more accessible. It caused such a big stir in the '70s due to outlandish claims (e.g. patriarchs and Sodom and Gomorrah being mentioned), and then once those claims were disproved, the Ebla texts pretty much got forgotten. Again, I understand most of the texts are boring administrative and financial texts, but still....why are such texts as the one presented above so completely buried in the academic literature? I'm not sure if there is even a full English translation of the above text.

  I don't know what the story with the Eblaite literature is, but I do know, having studied lots of histories, that when something becomes unpopular witht he current powers to be, it is suppessed. Case in point with the witnesses is Akhenaton's monotheistic response to the ten plagues. To me this is so "obvious" yet in growing up as a witness I never heard of this reference from the witnesses. Part of the reason was because their chronlogy was 100 years beyond Akhenaton likely. But that's why it got "suppressed"; not simply not mentioned, but probably an aversion to finding this out. Thus the witness culture discourages reading anything that hasn't been filtered and processed by the WTS and they warn of reading "apostate literature", etc. Clearly, because they can't answer all the questions and because someone might find out something.

  Same thing with the Jewish apocryphal historical records, like "Esdras". Esdras was the name of Ezra/Nehemiah originally one book, then apocryphal Esdras was written. But changes were made. When you look at the changes you can see that Nehemiah's history with Artaxerxes was removed and he remains a returnee from Babylon with Zerubbabel. So there is no doubt that Nehemiah in Jewish culture is understood historically here. Yet Christians and JWs will claim the Nehemiah mentioned here is "a different" Nehemiah. Still, I only casually heard about the apocryphal books. Bottom line is that Esdras was written as a substitute book of history for the Jews that was "politically correct" for Persian history since Xerxes was claiming to be his own son and the Jews were cooperating. Ezra/Nehemiah's reference to Nehemiah made him too old for the historical expansion of the Persian Period. But it's RIGHT THERE yet people don't refer to it. It's avoided.

  Same thing with Persepolis. If you look close enough you can see Xerxes with his larger right hand being shown off from both sides, proving his hand was already famous and thus he ended up being dubbed "Artaxerxes, Longimanus". Yet while you'll find numerous books in Sumer, Babylon, Assyria, EGYPT, Palestine, Caanan....it's extremely rare that anyone knows a whole lot about the Persian Period artifacts and historical references. But it's understandably why: because people knowing about these things are going to come up with questions and worse conclusions about what is being covered up.

  So, it's possible that some of these tablets might contain information that supports one way or another one side or another in this Bible vs secular debate and they just as soon keep it a secret.

  Also think about who CONTROLS all of this. Are they people without bias. I found a cryptic reference by an author who published astronomical texts that listed "Artaxerxes who was also known as Arses (Xerxes)". So those texts exist! He also published, quite rarely, a copy of the SK400 astronomical text. This text can now be used to redate year 7 of Nebuchadnezzar to 541BCE. At any rate, he tells in his book where he had been invited to study ancient texts at the British Museum. His research was in another area than history, more science and astronomy. But apparently going through all those texts, many of which are not translated and maybe never will be, he apparently discovered that Xerxes and Artaxerxes were the same king. When he confronted the curators they promptly and rudely threw him out of the museum and told him never to come back. He probably threatened to publish what he found and maybe he did, but of what use since the rich have power to suppress anything, besides, who would listen? So he decided to hide the references in an obscure book, but he told about how the British Museum had thrown him out.

  Point being likely there is an abundance of ancient texts around, that if they were in common distribution might be construed to support who knows what? What we have available is only what a few people who control all of this information want to let out! And that which is out, they avoid discussing.

  So my guess is that there is something in these tablets that probably cause more questions and conflicts than want to be dealt with and so maybe that's why it is being avoided, like so many other little sore spots that don't agree with what the original Catholic Pope wanted to establish as the official history, though not necessarily the truth.

  That's one of the advantages of secret societies and the Illuminati. If you saw the movie "1974" it's based on that. And that is: "He who controls the past, controls the present. He who controls the present, controls the future. But he who controls the present also controls the past."

  That movie was about rewriting history, changing old newspapers and rewriting history, which is easy to do in the next generation. So for instance all this stuff I'm posting is just here now, but later, it could all be ERASED and you won't find any references to it. That's why, I believe, some of the discussion board moderators HATED WITH A PASSION that I'd sign on as various different people. Because when you do that, it is REALLY HARD to get rid of people's posts with one quick search. But if you post under one name, then WHOSH! you can be gone quite quickly by a selective delete.

  And this is why some people totally avoid even commenting on certain topics. Because if you bring something to some academic's attention and generate dialogue, it becomes a record and thus much harder to erase. But to help establish "plausible deniability" they try to avoid "hearing" about it. So maybe someone will find something in those texts and publish it, someone who has some degrees and who is a rebel or greedy for money and will expose something and then it will force a change at which point many will simply say, "Well I hadn't heard about it, it wasn't my area of expertise."

  The powers to be have their own agendas and propaganda and they want people to depend upon THEM for all their information, just like the WTS, which is a basic Freemasonry control process. They do not want a lot of smart, curious people, independently looking into everything and potentially exposing some coverup.

  I'll go one step further. I've done research at several state universities. But they have a lot of private collections in the various departments that you never hear about. If there was something out there published that is controversial, or even agreed with something you were discovering that the powers to be didn't want you to know about, it's a simple process to bury it, not on the shelves but in the electronic index!!! Thus certain publications are not available to certain groups of people. I even discovered that AOL has the ability to screen discussion boards. That is, say if you put down your ZIP CODE you won't even see certain posts by other people. Thus you think you're talking to a lot of people all over the world, but you're really only talking to who AOL wants you to talk to. You know? The people in Beverly Hills and Brentwood won't even seen the posts from people in Carson and Compton. So the internet can control you that way. I only fond out because I posted under different people and as a result the posts that were available were different. This keeps the people they want to smarter than everybody else by selective availability of information.

  So what I'd do is if I wanted to know about a topic, I'd go to the shelves themselves and pull everything off the shelf and go through all the books. I'd go through hundreds of books in entire sections looking for things--things I know the library would conveniently not cross-reference! Of course, I found all kinds of good things.

  Another reason I know this is done is because at one point researchers from all over the world interested in my research would contact me directly and we'd exchange our data. So I know of lots of archaeologists who have their own rare research and they've sent it me, thus I have a rare collection of some really great stuff. But I never would have found it doing the usual search.

  So the "INFORMATION HIGHWAY" is just as big of a joke as the state university. You think you go there for knowledge and information, but it's just a clever propaganda tool which only feeds you what they want you to know, knowing you will follow the obvious conclusions if you presume those are the only options.

  Old used book stores is another great place to find some RARE STUFF if you know what to look for.

  So the internet and the university system make it very easy to do research but it's also very easy to CONTROL who knows what, who finds what. If a well-known author and scientist thought it necessary to hide what happened to him in the British Museum, he must have understood the control over information that the large institutions have over all information and now the control the internet allows in keeping information from certain people. It's just a joke.

  Of course, that's WHY people devise ways to communicate in non-obvious ways, in secretive ways, in symbolisms, in "cryptic art" and "subliminal art", etc. It's the same old game of keeping ones thoughts and secrets private except for those you want to share them with.

  Finally, the Jews, who through their own records have lots of information as well! They are known to be "non-talkers" to outsiders. So if some area of research seems to be getting the silent treatment, it may very well be critical information that is known in a few circles but that is something they want to keep a secret from others, well, not so simplified, but basically, anti-Messianic Jewish academics who want to keep something from Christians, etc. Just acknowledging the religious "conflict of interest" for Jews or Christians doing this research.

  So for every ten things that perhaps anti-Biblicalists will poublish say that tends to contradict something in the Bible, there may be some great "evidence" that directly supports the Bible but you'll never hear about it if it's too controversial.

  Fortunately for me, MY MESSAGE, is available at various places on the net under different names, information that you will NEVER even find unless you're actually LOOKING for the right combination of terms. So in that sense, the internet is a great place to hide information if you know how to do it.

  So that's the beauty of anti-secret socities. If you have something you want to tell 10,000 select people, and you're being watched and monitored, it only takes one secret undercover person to get the message who is not being watched who will then encrypt it and send it out to everybody who needs that information. So it can work both ways.

  JC
• 

  Leolaia

  Never mind. I wasn't speaking to you.

  (And please refrain from posting long off-topic ramblings, especially about the Illuminati, secret societies, your religion, etc. Seriously, that is NOT WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT!!)

  Yeah, I know you think it's not off-topic because you think it all explains why the Eblaite material isn't cited more, but it doesn't -- except in your conspiracy-addled mind (e.g. the entire Eblaite ARET corpus is available in my university library, not suppressed at all), so please stop. I don't want to wade through your enormous crackpotish posts that totally overwhelm the information I'm trying to present. It wouldn't be so bad if your posts weren't SO DAMN LONG!

  Why don't we set up a courteous gentleperson's agreement like you did with PP? That way I wouldn't have to worry about JCanon flooding my researched threads with huge posts of irrelevant and very questionable unresearched material. Or make your posts much, much shorter than they are here, and keep them reasonably on topic (i.e. no preaching about your JIOR "secret society" cult). Your choice.
• 

  LittleToe

  Leo:
  You are so polite!
• 

  JCanon

  Hi Leolaia:

  Sorry for the long posts. I don't mind if we agree to disagree. I'll refrain from any commentary in your posts or make them very short, reserving the right to rebut anything specifically personal mentioned about me. I can do that.

  I still enjoy your research and thank you for bringing your information to us.

  JC