life after death

by Sookie 34 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Carmel

  DEarest Sookie,

  I am trying to put myself in your position and admit, it is not likely I can do that. Your loss is unfathomable but your resultant confusion and depression is understandable given your early indoctrination. Life after life (death?) is an issue that perplexes many, not just exJws. Most of the worlds religions describe an existence beyond the one we are presently experiancing. Those are likely not to be ideas you would be comfortable with growing up as a dubby. The majority of mainstream Christian religions talk of a "heavenly hope" to use dubby terms. I no longer adhere to the Chrisitian faith as such, but do not reject its authenticity. I would be happy to share with you my beliefs but don't feel it is appropriate unless you indicate your interest. PM me if you want.

  warm regards,

  carmel
• 

  Satanus

  I always recommend for people to read peoples' near death experiences. They are usually of a non religious nature. You could do a search on google for 'nde experiences'.

  I'm quite sure that the spirit carries on after the body dies, although it has not been scientifically proven, as of yet. A couple of yrs ago, while meditating, i saw my brother who died 30 yrs ago. He was glowing w golden light, beaming happiness/joy/love. I wasn't actually thinking about him at the time.
• 

  FirstInLine

  Sookie,

  Hi, welcome to the board. I am not quite sure what exactly it is you are asking for.

  I think the first thing you need to realize is that no one knows what happens when we die. It is hands down, the greatest mystery of the ages. No one knows.

  The Egyptians thought that in order to survive in the after life your body must stay intact and recognizable so as you are aware they performed the most elaborate burial procedures of any culture that has ever existed.

  Religions primarily break down into two categories:

  Afterlife religions and power/war religions.

  Christianity was formed as an afterlife religion. In the middle ages it was used for power/war but the religion itself was still afterlife.

  Buddhism/hinduism/sihkism are an afterlife religion. Virtually the same with their intents. Hinduism has some particularly violent offshoots that were power/war. sihkism has spawned some terrorist organizations but that is primarily due to persecution.

  Islam was started as an afterlife religion and had the same journey as Christianity. It is still an afterlife religion.

  Judaism originally was a power/war religion and actually still is today although it is not used in the traditional power/war way by most of its followers. It is the most succesfull power/war religion of all time. The oddity of Judaism is that the followers havent really fought in well over 2000 years but still believe in it and believe that god will intervene and make them the winners.

  Greek/Roman, Aztec (and Norse to a smaller extent) mythology were power/war religions of the most traditional sense and purpose. Very violent bloodlust rituals intended to barbarize and desensitize their warriors.

  Celtic mythology evolved from afterlife to power/war, primarily due to increasing contact with Roman forces.

  As time goes by power/war religions are formed less and less. This is because humans learn. Power/War religions are formed to raise morale of the military. They are promised that if they worship their God(s) and fight hard enough for the ruler (usually divine) their gods will come to their aid and give them a major advantage. The problem is word gets out that other power/war religions exist. And they never win through divine intervention either.

  However, people still die and no one still knows what happens. So this still makes a good basis for a religion.

  The winner is afterlife. Afterlife religions are slightly more credible so we can eliminate the power/war religions as most of the world has.

  I think the best way to start off in thinking about the afterlife is to study human beings and the universe. These are the two key elements in forming a belief in the afterlife.

  If you study the universe and nature, more than likely you will realize there is a master creator to everything. If you study humans you might realize that humans show supernatural traits and are of divine origin or in other words were specifically created by the creator.

  Based on these observations you are left with the question of the ages. Is there an afterlife? If you believe that god created the universe and specifically man you can ask yourself why would god create humans with so much potential and capacity but only allow them a very short life span?

  If you cant think of a good reason for this you might consider believing in an afterlife -- which would be an extension of life.

  Just when you finally figure out how to live, you die.
• 

  LyinEyes

  ((((((((( Sookie))))))))))), your words sound so much like what I say to myself all the time. As long ago as my mother died, as long as I have been out of JW,,,, I do know the empty , at times very painful, exhausting feeling of not knowing.

  I just have to believe that you have to give yourself time to search, time to listen to whatever is out there that may be giving you a sign ,,,,,,,( if there is any) and you will make it thru. You are SOOOOOOOO right,,,,,,,,,,you will never be "normal " again, in the same class of your peers,,,,,,,because you have been thru so much , they can not even comprehend your pain, your loss, your questions. You are forever in a class all by yourself in the real world. I truly believe it is a blessing that you are on this site, so you dont feel so alone. We may never met, but I hope you know that I , as well as many on this board have been in your shoes,,,,,,,,,in maybe a different circumstance, different time, and place,,,,,,,but the feeling that we are left with is the same. We just don't know how to comfort ourselves without the WT telling us what to believe. It is hard to go it alone,,,,,,,after all of your life ,,,,,you go to the bound volumns for any thing you needed answers for and there you had it. It was pretty easy to convince ourselves they were right and we just had to have faith that what they said would turn out to be true.

  Now our spiritual foundations are rocked to the ground in a crumble. We probably could weather it so much easier if we didnt have the nagging questions of where is our loved ones , now that we are not sure of our own beliefs???????? I guess that is natural, part of the healing process leaving JW. It is so sad that you leaving JW , so young and having this on your plate. I say that in a motherly way.......feeling for you as I would comfort myself at the age of 18 , if I could. I had no one to comfort me then,,,,,surely not my JW "brothers and sister" for they wouldnt even talk about my mother,,,,,,,talk of her was off limits.

  Just know that anytime you want to talk about your boyfriend or anything,,,,,,,you do it. Don't hold back your grief,,,,,your sorrow, or your questions,,,,,,,because I promise you.....20 years later,,,,, if you don't face all of that now,,,,,,, it WILL still be with you as it is today. I never began to heal over my mother until I left JW.......I am still healing and I feel more peace with her than I ever did in the last two years, than I did as a JW for over 17 yrs since her death.

  You are doing great Sookie. Your boyfriend is probably somewhere wishing you knew that .
• 

  Sookie

  I'm relieved that I am not alone and that so many of you have given life after death alot of thought, but I'm also overwhelmed with all of the options that have been given to me. However, some of you sound so positive that there is life after death for your loved one who has passed on. I am wondering, especially from Codeblue and LyinEyes and anyone else who wants to respond, how you were able to emotionally and spiritually come to that conclusion for yourself? I'm really curious. Do we believe we will see our love ones again simply because that belief makes us feel good in coping with our loss, or is this something that we know without a shadow of a doubt to be true? ...I've always thought of myself as an independent thinker, but when it comes to spiritual beliefs, you're right LyinEyes, my beliefs aren't my beliefs at all, they're JWs.

  Also, they say there are 5 or 6 stages to the grieving process and I kind of feel like I'm experiencing them all at once. I know denial is one of them. Sometimes I feel like my boyfriend really isn't gone, that he's going to walk through the door any minute. Have any of you ever experienced this emotion?

  Sookie
• 

  JamesThomas

  Dear Sookie, If we are to really learn from a loved ones passing, perhaps the question should be: is there life before death? Life, is real and actual, existing only within this moment. All our judgments, interpretations and beliefs, all our pasts and futures are but conceptual abstracts which veil the vibrancy of Life, right here, right now. When we are with a friend or loved one, are we really there? Is there silent nonjudgmental presence and openness? Or is the mind going a mile a second with thoughts, interpretations and commentaries which hide the actual warm aliveness of true togetherness? What matters is -- are we alive now? If we do not know how to be present and one with life now, death is unlikely to change that. Concerns for life after death are only distractions from present moment awareness. A habit of reaching past the actual moment into a future that does not exist. I do not mean to seem uncaring or cold towards your loss. When a loved one is suddenly gone, they leave a gift, a vacancy, an opening, a crack through which we can learn the truth about Life. j
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  LyinEyes

  Sookie, you can experience all the stages of grief at one time........but the steady healing seems to go along that five stages of grief.

  I think too, when someone dies so young, especially in a very tragic way, the grief can be so complex.

  With issues of suicide, you don't have all the answers, you will never know . You get mad , you get mad at yourself for getting mad at someone who is dead. All of those stages , can come and go , but I swear time does heal. I always hated that saying, I used to say ,,,,,,,time does heal....but there is a damn ugly scar left behind. But I am still here, scars and all.

  I honestly think right now, I want so badly to believe there is life after death, that I let my mind entertain the possiblity because it is a comfort.

  Being so confused , after being lied to by the JW's , it is hard for me to trust anything, anyone, or even my own ideas. I am a work in progress on what I believe. For now that is ok with me thou.
• 

  poppers

  There is a great book called, "Journey of Souls: Case Studies of Life Between Lives" which I feel may provide some comfort for you. The author is Michael Duff Newton. He has a more recent book as well which goes further into the subject and is entitled, "Destiny of Souls: Case Studies of Life Between Lives".
  
  From Amazon.com is this description:
  
  "Journey of Souls is a controversial yet inspiring investigation of the big question we all face at one point or another: "What happens after we die?" To find the answer, Newton opens cases from his private practice in which he hypnotically regressed his clients to a point between lives--after death, but before birth. Not only does Newton grapple with reincarnation, the spirit world, and the nature of the human soul, he also tackles equally sticky questions such as "Is there a Heaven and Hell?" and "What are ghosts?" Readers with a penchant for skepticism will balk at the lack of physical evidence to back up the claims in Journey of Souls, but the book remains a reassuring voice, affirming that our existence is not limited to the boundaries of our mortal flesh." At one point in my life I was really interested in this sort of thing, but no longer. Whether his research is accurate or not I have no clue.
  
  My views on death have changed radically in the last few years - there is simply no fear whatsoever, and the reason is I know who I really am. When you discover that for yourself you will find that what you really are never dies, for what you really are is life itself. We may not realize it because we are so caught up in personal storylines about who we think we are, and so we miss who we really are. The key to finding this treasure is hiding in plain sight - this very moment - Now. Now is all there is, so just be fully present with what is. Stories from the past and thoughts of tomorrow just hide the only reality there is, which is whatever is in front of you. Be fully present and you will be in eternity, outside of the mental creation of time, beyond the grasp of fear generated ideas of death.
  
  Peace,
  Poppers
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  Sookie

  Thanks LyinEyes! It really helps that you can relate to my situation. I know what you mean about that "ugly scar left behind." I would also appreciate hearing more of your words of wisdom LyinEyes and from other ex-JWs who have lost a close loved one and how you dealt with your grief and spirituality.

  Sookie
• 

  Sookie

  A couple of people made posts earlier that JWs believe that ALL those who die before Armageddon will be ressurected, because death acquits a person of sin. Just for my reference, can someone show me where this can be found in the Bible?

  Thanks!

  Sookie