Easter Thought: Was the ransom price really paid?

by Andrew Farrell 12 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Andrew Farrell
    Andrew Farrell

    Jehovah's Witnesses, and indeed many christians, believe Jesus Christ is their redeemer.

    The Watchtower Society sets forth a specific formula for this doctrine:-

    Adam, a pefect man, sinned and lost everlasting life. We inherited his sin, and so we conitnue to pay the price of death.

    Jesus, a perfect man, was sinless and in giving his life, gained back our chance at everlasting life. He paid the ransom, and eliminated the need for us to die for our sins.

    So, the obvious question arises:-

    WHY DO WE STILL DIE? If Jesus has paid the price, if what Adam lost has been restored, if we have truly been redeemed and the ransom price paid (and presented to Jehovah according to the Bible...) then why do we still die? Why are we still living in 'sin' 2,000 years later?

    (Curious to see how people who believe this doctrine respond...)

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan

    "But you are not in the flesh, you are in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you."

    "God is Spirit."

    Jws have a belief that 'living according to the flesh' is descriptive of things like sexual sensuality or fleshly gratification.

    It describes living in terms of the flesh and setting their minds on things of the flesh - for example - "the earthly hope" and their "new system of things".

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    "It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body."

    "while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord"

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    To say that they believe differently from me falls short of describing how different.

  • cameo
    cameo

    Because:

    "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    May you have peace!

    Your questions "If Jesus has paid the price, if what Adam lost has been restored, if we have truly been redeemed and the ransom price paid (and presented to Jehovah according to the Bible...) then why do we still die? Why are we still living in 'sin' 2,000 years later?" are a little inaccurate with regard to what the ransom "covered"... and when. Please permit me to explain, just as my Lord has granted me to. Thank you.

    What -

    The "price" that Christ "paid" was for the right... to "everlasting life," which Adam "lost": first, he "sold" his progeny into slavery to sin and death (that was the "exchange") and because HE was "cut off" from the Garden of Eden so that HE could not reenter and eat from the Tree of Life, so his progeny were cut off, too.

    Christ did not, however, redeem us from death of the flesh NOW... but to everlasting life LATER. What Christ "repurchased"... was (1) a RELEASE from the HOLD that death has on us... ("I have the keys to death and Hades")... so that even if we DO die (in the flesh), by means of HIM we can LIVE... in the SPIRIT - Death... cannot HOLD... the SPIRIT; and (2) a RIGHT to reenter and EAT... from the Tree of Life... which Tree IS the Christ ("I am the True Vine", "You are branches in ME," "the ROOT of Jesse," "SPROUT!"). If we eat from HIM... from the 'leaves' of HIS 'tree'... his flesh... then although we might die in the flesh... we can be resurrected to life... in the SPIRIT.

    When -

    NOT now, but:

    1. For those "who belong to the Christ" - when he returns to "gather" them "from the four extremities of the heavens." These are either (1) resurrected as spirits to spirit bodies - WHITE "robes" - immediately upon my Lord's return ("he that has died will be brought back to life")... OR (2) instantly changed to spirits in spirit bodies at that time ("he that has NOT died, will never die"). So that TOGETHER... they meet the Lord in the air... and, as his "bride"... are taken to his Father's house to be "married" to him ("If I go my way to prepare a place for you, I am coming AGAIN... and will receive you HOME to myself, that were I am you ALSO may be.")

    1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

    2. For those who do NOT belong to Christ, but receive a blessing... for "doing good" to Christ's brothers... in the manner of Rahab... who was NOT an Israelite, nor under the Law Covenant when she made a deal for the salvation of her entire household... "in the 're-creation'", when Christ and his "bride," the 144,000 AND "great crowd", who TOGETHER make up ONE flock... sit down on thrones... and separate the "sheep" (who are sheep by means of the "good" they did TO Christ's brothers)... and the "goats"... (who are goats by means of they good they did NOT do to Christ's brothers).

    The sheep "inherit" the kingdom: they are allowed to enter the kingdom and become subjects of Christ and his brother co-rulers. At that time, THEY receive "everlasting life" because once they enter the "City"... that have access to and can eat FROM... the Tree of Life, which eating sustains them.

    The goats, however, are "cut OFF" from entry, thus, they can NOT eat from that Tree... and are basically "dead"... because they do not have "life within themselves." Please note that the goats are NOT destroyed... at that time... as the Society falsely teaches. Their destruction occurs when they... Gog... and the "angels that sinned"... Magog... are "misled" by Satan (upon his release from the abyss) to "encircle the camp and go AGAINST the Holy City"... in an effort to gain entry. Why? To eat... from the Tree of Life... and live forever.

    Satan, thus, gathers them... to the place that is called Harmaggedon... the "field" right outside the Holy City. It is THERE that fire comes down out of heaven and destroys BOTH Gog... the goats that were cut off... and Magog... the angels that were cut off... everlastingly. Thus, "the heavens and earth (spirit and flesh) that are NOW... are stored UP... for fire."

    All of these in Item 2, however, are living at the time of the return of Christ. Those who did not belong to Christ... but are DEAD... do not come to life until the thousand years have ended. For once that 1,000 years have ended, and Satan does his misleading attempt, and Gog and Magog... and Satan... are destroyed... THEN is the "resurrection of the dead"... THEN is when "the sea gives up those in it, and death and Hades give up those in THEM." The first resurrection is the resurrection... of the LIVING, "for God is a God "of the LIVING".

    For those who are resurrection at THAT time... it is either to life... by means of having their sins... as read from scrolls in which are their deeds... good AND bad... "covered"... by the blood of the Lamb. These include "the spirits of those who sinned" during Noah's day. Those who are resurrected to JUDGMENT... are destroyed. This is because their sins... have no "covering"... and the "wage" or PRICE of sin... is death. This... is the "second death"... destruction in the lake of fire... from which there is NO resurrection.

    I, SJ, have told it to you just as I received it from my Lord and Master, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, the Son and Christ of the Most Holy One of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, whose name is JAH... of Armies.

    Again, I bid you peace.

  • gumby
    gumby

    The bible always gives it's gifts...."later". 'When we die we will experience blessings'.

    The bible also tells of other things nobody has ever seen......such as Jesus, miracles, blessings, and god himself. Everything is a "promise" or a "hope"......always in the near or distant future.......but never actually realised.

    The question you have raised has always confounded me. Jesus blood washes away sin......the very thing that causes death...........but it doesn't take effect till later. That's like getting a shot of novacaine before having a tooth pulled.......then waiting 2000 years before you go numb.

    Gumby

  • Gadget
    Gadget
    Adam, a pefect man, sinned and lost everlasting life. We inherited his sin, and so we conitnue to pay the price of death.

    Jesus, a perfect man, was sinless and in giving his life, gained back our chance at everlasting life. He paid the ransom, and eliminated the need for us to die for our sins.

    Its because the ransom wasn't paid in full. Adam sinned and lost everlasting life for all eternity, Jesus gave it up for only 3 days. Its like doing a house exchange with someone where you give them your house but they give you a timeshare for only one week a year in its place. Its not exactly the scales being balanced is it...........................

  • ball.
    ball.

    Well the thought that someone once stole an "APPLE" and billions of people SUFFER illness, old age, death is quite EVIL. I would really like to know what the story of Eden really means. Having been brought up a witness to believe the story literally, I am now quite interested to know what the story really means. I have heard that the story has sexual conotations, but I don't even think that explains it entirely.

    Put it this way, seen in the context that we are simply developed animals, the story takes on slightly different meaning. We were imperfect from the start because we were based on the same DNA as everything else on this planet, born to grow old and die, which was our nature. So there was a chance to become like God by eating of a certain tree, but Adam and Eve failed the test. If the eating of the apple was sex, Satan was right. The only way they could live forever was bearing children and Adam and Eve are alive today in all of us and if they hadn't eaten the apple, you and I wouldn't be here to discuss this.

    I realise I'm rambling a bit, I've got more questions than answers.

  • Undecided
    Undecided

    Make up your own religious belief and have faith in it and you get the same reward that everything gets, you live a few years and die and become part of the earth again.

    Ken P.

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    Yes, the price has been paid and as a result you may be forgiven.

    Why will I die? I won't - I'll be with the Lord. That's what Paul teaches.

    's easy. Next question.

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    Andy,

    As a PS to my post, I've included the link to a site that'd be helpful to you:

    http://www.matthiasmedia.com.au/2wtl/whatis2wtl.asp

    Mathias Media are in Sydney too, so they are very accessible to you. I know the people who put together the course and know that it's a presentation of the gospel very simply put. It's available on CD. Only about $13.

    So, if you're really interested in getting an answer to your question, there's plenty of help "out there".

    Cheers, Ozzie

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