by orangefatcat 38 Replies latest jw friends
From my experience, every body of elders are a law within themselves, so what they decide may be different to what another body of elders will decide. Even if the edlers book say that this is the way it should be done, if you bring it out to them, all they will ask is "how did you get the book ?'. Your not suppose to know what the elders bok says.
lots of room for corruption
regards rick
(((( Orangefatcat ))))
My heart goes out to you.
It is hard sometimes in situations like this to really know what's going on in say, your Mom's mind.....would you consider just goin' to the hospital and just letting her know your heartfelt concern for her?? You're kind of damned if you do and damned if you don't, but I'm suggesting that you'd always wonder what the response from her might be if you never gave it a try.....Your concern and love has shown brilliantly in your postings here about this, I'm certain you'd have no difficulty getting the same point accross to her in person....
I misunderstood your question(s) earlier, by the way. Even according to Witness logic [sic], there is no way you would properly be told to butt out under these circumstances....of course your brother in law may have strong feelings otherwise, but as you have already figured out, he is a moron and an insensitive jerk, even for a Witness elder.....
----Dan
So if my mother hasn't got it with in her heart to contact me, I guess to her I am no longer important, so if thats the way she wants to be so let. I can't do anything about it. It just hurts because she said she loved me.Orangie,
Don't think your mother doesn't call you because she doesn't love you. She is doing what dubs are trained to do......it happens to many of us with families who also love us. Many are afraid of what others might think of them also. I had a couple of dub aunts pass away that I heard about through the grapevine! My mom didn't tell me. I was hurt and pissed at the same time......but I do know my mom and other family members love me. I think your family loves you too.
Gumby
OFC:
Life sometime stinks and today that is how I am feeling down and depressed and in pain both physically and emtionally. Lifes a bitch
Only if you let it be
It's all just a state of mind, at the end of the day.
You did what you could, and showed concern. What more can be expected?
You've a good heart.
Bless ya!
thanks for all your encouraging words and I am feeling alot better now. And yes I know someone would ask me how is that I have a copy of the elders guide. I would just tell them the truth, and ex elder gave it to me.
So I don't think though that will ever happen.
You are all so kind and I count it an honour to have all of you as my friends.
All my love and thanks
Orangeafatacata
Hi Orange,
LittleToe is correct. I can add that you should make sure that if questioned, you tell the elders that your visits were due to "necessary business" in dealing with your mother (or any DF or DA relative). Be sure to discuss something of serious serious business ... so that you can convey that if asked ... make sure it is the type of business that is continuing ... this way you can make more than one visit. That should do it ... unless they become anal about it, which happens from time to time with brain-dead elders. So, make sure you develop an ally with at least one good and rational elder. - Amazing
OFC,
I'm not df or da but my bro will not speak to me. It does hurt. As far as your question , all i wanted to add is, some people always take everything to the extremes. By this i mean, an elder will tell them , "yes u may see your son for family business, but one must remember they will be held accountable before jehovah for all decisions they make" etc or words to that affect. So what happens, they frighten the person and to be on the safe side the jw then will not see their relative for any reason so the be sure they are not displeasing jehovah. or i knew an elder who just refused to associate with his daughter for any reason just b/c he personally held a grudge against her. so sometimes it is what the elders say and other times it may be how someone interperts it. my bro interperts that he should not contaminate himself ever with anyone not an active jws.
Or put it this way, an elder told me , "when the society says something is a gray area, they mean they dan't actually DF u for it, but no self respecting jws would do it, and those that do it will be shunned, unoffically of course"
Hope u are feeling well. Best of luck, i hate what the wts does to us.
Hi OFC,
Sorry about your mum.
It may not help, but I think this is the quote that LittleToe and Amazing referred to:
18 The second situation that we need to consider is that involving a disfellowshiped or disassociated relative who is not in the immediate family circle or living at one?s home. Such a person is still related by blood or marriage, and so there may be some limited need to care for necessary family matters. [Bold emphasis added] (w81 9/15 p. 29 If a Relative Is Disfellowshiped)
Hope things work out...
Regards,
Ken
Hi Terry
I saw your post and re the elder manual"Pay Attention" which the WT Legal Dept. updates depending on the prevailing conditions that exist in the Congregations at a particular time As an example if you recall that there was a time the WT got hung up on beards and boys sporting long hair . A fellow elder had a son who chose to grow his hair longer and the WT sent the word down that if an elder allowed that " he did not have control of his family " and was forced to step down . I disagreed and the Elder Body accused me of speaking against the Elder arrangement and wanted me to step down and i refused to step down and they replied ,then we will remove you .which they did . Later on the WT realized that they had shot themselves in the foot as elders were dropping like flies and reversed their policy .I was called to meet with them 6 months later as they wanted to reinstate me as an elder and i declined.
The reason i mention the above Terry is as regards you ? is the principal set forth at Math: 10:34-38 has a bearing on disfellowshipping and disassociated persons is untrue as verses 32 and 33 set the tone for disowning Christ and Christ would disown them before the Father.If one goes back and reads the context its obvious he giving instructions to his 12 apostles as what they would be facing in their ministry. But the WT has selected those 5 passages to make a case for disfellowshipping and disassociation and refer to it as " the proper view"
Now because the prevailing conditions have changed and the numbers are falling the " special and difficult problems of their making are causeing the WT problems that is why the new spin on !Cor,5 :11 Re "normally etc, unless etc., plus the families in the WT are probably not now buying into being separated from each other as they did in the past.
As far as being able to give you the latest facts Terry that would be difficult because from my past experience i learned the WT like any business floats an idea to see if it sells and if it does not and numbers decline the " new light " change policy kicks in hoping it will correct the previous blunder
If it was me and i felt that that they had policy change i wouldnt hesitate to go and see her . In fact i would go and see her even if there was no policy change unless she told me she did not want to see me . I say that because my sister is still a jw and a diabetic and my brother told me she was not well so i called her and asked her how she was doing and she said fine . She then asked if i was going to the K.H and i said that i was not and she said well we have nothing in common and hung up.
So you do the right and kind thing and it always works out for the best in the end.
Hopes that helps Terry getting tired didnt get a chance to check for errors In Gods Love Don Smith
