GREAT CROWD GIVEN NEW STATUS? (page 2)

minimus

The WT. says "a group of Christians"----not "all Christians". They are referring to the FDS only----not the great crowd.

Nathan Natas

As has been explained already,

The spirit-begotten Faithful and Discreet Slave == Ancient Israel (people in a covenant relationship with YHVH)

The Great Crowd of people with an earthly hope == the gentile nations, non-jews, goyim

The confusion is understandable, the WT shifts typology at will. In one place "Israel" is the whole world, In the next it is JWs as whole (as they attempt to apply Is 43:10 to the whole group)in others they say that only the "annointed" are Israel. In fact the NT writers did the same. The Servant in Is.43 and other places is the same character in 53, that is, a metaphorical reference to Israel as a nation, yet they lifted the passage from context to appear as a "prophecy" about Jesus.

Hunyadi

OK, fine, but get a load of this: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/68474/1071833/post.ashx

wt 5/15/97 page 19
"The
Generation . . . to Come"
15
The anointed remnant has been eager to train other sheep for increased responsibilities. Psalm 71:18 says: "Even until old age and gray-headedness, O God, do not leave me, until I may tell about your arm to the generation, to all those who are to come, about your mightiness." Commenting on this verse, the December 15, 1948, Watchtower pointed out that the congregation of anointed Christians had certainly reached old age. It went on to say that the anointed happily "look forward in the light of Bible prophecy and see a new generation." To whom particularly is this referring? The Watchtower said: "Jesus spoke of them as his ?other sheep.?" ?The generation to come? refers to humans who will live under the new earthly administration governed by the Kingdom of the heavens.
16
The Bible does not clearly say when all anointed Christians will leave their brothers of this ?generation to come? and go on to be glorified along with Jesus Christ. But these anointed ones are confident that the time for this is approaching. The events foretold in Jesus? great prophecy about "the time of the end" have been coming to pass since 1914, showing that the destruction of this world is near. (Daniel 12:4; Matthew 24:3-14; Mark 13:4-20; Luke 21:7-24) Soon, Jehovah will usher in a new world in which ?the generation to come? will ?inherit the kingdom [the earthly realm] prepared for them from the founding of the world.? (Matthew 25:34) They are thrilled to anticipate the restoration of Paradise and the raising of millions of dead ones from Hades. (Revelation 20:13) Will anointed ones be there to welcome back these resurrected ones? Back in 1925, the May 1 Watch Tower said: "We should not arbitrarily say what God will or will not do. . . . [But] we are led to the conclusion that the members of the Church [anointed Christians] will be glorified before the resurrection of the ancient worthies [faithful pre-Christian witnesses]." Similarly discussing whether some of the anointed would be on hand to welcome back the resurrected ones, the September 1, 1989, Watchtower said: "This would not be necessary."
17
True, we do not know what will happen in the case of each anointed Christian. But the presence of Moses and Elijah with Jesus in the transfiguration vision indicates that resurrected anointed Christians are expected to be with Jesus when he comes in glory to "recompense each one according to his behavior" as his judgment is rendered and executed. Further, we remember Jesus? promise that anointed Christians who ?conquer? will share with him in ?shepherding the nations with an iron rod? at Armageddon. When Jesus comes in glory, they will sit with him "judging the twelve tribes of Israel." With Jesus, they will ?crush Satan under their feet.??Matthew 16:27?17:9; 19:28; Revelation 2:26, 27; 16:14, 16; Romans 16:20; Genesis 3:15; Psalm 2:9; 2 Thessalonians 1:9, 10.
18
In keeping with his administration of things, Jehovah is progressively moving "to gather all things together again in the Christ." As far as "the things in the heavens" are concerned, his purpose approaches completion. The uniting of Jesus with all the 144,000 in heaven for "the marriage of the Lamb" is near. Hence, more and more longtime, mature brothers of the other sheep, representing "the things on the earth," have had delegated to them weightier responsibilities in support of their anointed brothers. What exciting times we live in! How thrilling to see Jehovah?s purpose moving on to its fulfillment! (Ephesians 1:9, 10; 3:10-12; Revelation 14:1; 19:7, 9) And how the other sheep rejoice to support their anointed brothers as both groups serve together as "one flock" under "one shepherd" in subjection to the King, Jesus Christ, and to the glory of the great Universal Sovereign, Jehovah God!?John 10:16; Philippians 2:9-11.

I think that is a status change, no?

Corvin

DanTheMan

The only reasonable conclusion, then...

God they kill me with that shit.

got my forty homey?

Maybe the boat has tacked in the wind and they are leading into a new direction, hey if the partakers are dwindling they must explain it somehow. I remember as a young boy my Father telling that if the number of partakers went to zero and the armageddon hadn't arrived they we would know its not the truth. I couldn't wait that long.

ozziepost

18 In keeping with his administration of things, Jehovah is progressively moving "to gather all things together again in the Christ." As far as "the things in the heavens" are concerned, his purpose approaches completion. The uniting of Jesus with all the 144,000 in heaven for "the marriage of the Lamb" is near. Hence, more and more longtime, mature brothers of the other sheep, representing "the things on the earth," have had delegated to them weightier responsibilities in support of their anointed brothers. What exciting times we live in! How thrilling to see Jehovah?s purpose moving on to its fulfillment! (Ephesians 1:9, 10; 3:10-12; Revelation 14:1; 19:7, 9) And how the other sheep rejoice to support their anointed brothers as both groups serve together as "one flock" under "one shepherd" in subjection to the King, Jesus Christ, and to the glory of the great Universal Sovereign, Jehovah God!?John 10:16; Philippians 2:9-11.

Ah, now we come down to the nitty-gritty! I don't see there's a doctrinal change going on, but what I do see is that there is a real problem for the WTS in sticking to the F&DS doctrine. The dilemma comes to this: what happens when all the so-called "anointed" have died and there is only the so-called "great crowd" left? Are they to be the F&DS? If so, the WTS has a real dilemma, for its (false) interpretation of Jesus' parable would dictate that only the "anointed" comprise that "slave class".

I s'pose they're hoping that the Big A comes before that all happens!

Cheers, Ozzie

jgnat

...or else, Ozzie, the WTBTS can claim they continue to take direction from the heavenly class, as they do now with Jesus on his heavenly throne.

Of course, they may be committing the sin of Saul, but I am sure they are working on a reasonable explanation for their exceptional guidance as we speak...

GREAT CROWD GIVEN NEW STATUS?