Need Input! Overcoming Active JW Objections re: Letter on UN Website

by imallgrowedup 32 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    SYN wrote:

    : Possible Response: Wrong! This is a VERY big deal. For decades, the Watchtower harped on about how the United Nations (and previously the League of Nations) were both essentially manifestations of Satan, or THE HARLOT. They don't paint a very pretty picture of the UN in their literature, pre-1992. After that, all of a sudden, they started to talk about how wonderful the UN's various programs are, and at regular intervals!

    Precisely the point. What this little episode demonstrates is that the Watchtower Society itself doesn't believe the bullshit it emits for the rank and file to accept as "food in due season" from the so-called "faithful and discreet slave".

    Can you spell H_Y_P_O_C_R_I_S_Y ?

    imallgrowedup posted:

    : Objection: Jehovah is USING the United Nations to prove his sovereignty.

    Oh? Please explain to me exactly how he's doing that by causing/allowing "the faithful slave" publicly to align itself with the UN.

    : Objection: They MUST have been tricked into joining in order to get into the library or in order to get literature into countries where they are taxed such as France.

    Oh? Who tricked them? Satan? And for what purpose? If he did, then just who did he deceive? And what do you think he tried to accomplish? Note that Governing Body members Lloyd Barry and Theodore Jaracz, Writing Department member Ciro Aulicino, editor of the Awake! magazine Harry Peloyan, Service Department heavy Robert Johnson, and plenty of other Watchtower officials, must have been deceived. If so, did Jehovah subsequently correct them? If he did, then how? Just what did Jehovah do to correct these evildoers? Are they still in the same positions within the Watchtower organization that they were when the UN story was made public? (So far as I know, the answer is yes) If not, then isn't it evident that Jehovah has nothing to do with these deceitful men?

    : Objection: ... this [is an] example of theocratic warfare.

    Oh. So Jehovah, speaking out of one side of his mouth, tells rank and file Witnesses to avoid anything having to do with the U.N., yet speaking out of the other side tells the leaders of the Witnesses to go ahead and join themselves to "the Great Harlot" for some sort of gain. Yes, that makes a lot of sense. But remember that "God has no need of our lies."

    : Objection: Oh well if they didn't make it up, some apostates must be working for the UN against us.

    ???

    : Objection: They must have become an NGO for a good reason.

    Indeed they did! Advantage in politics! Exactly opposite of what they claim they're neutral about.

    : Objection: We should not question ... god's wife like organization, lets just leave it in [Jehovah's] hands.

    Ah. So if God's "wife" tells you to kill your mother, would you do it? If not, then where would you draw the line?

    : Objection: Maybe ... a UN-Watchtower alliance as a good thing, despite the official policy.

    Evidence, please.

    : Objection: Maybe by supporting the agenda of the UN they were bringing Armageddon just that much closer.

    Do you really think that God's timetable, if any, could be influenced by the visicitudes of mere imperfect men?

    Hope this does some good.

    AlanF

  • imallgrowedup
    imallgrowedup

    I LOVE these!!! It is so interesting to see everyone put their "heart" into these responses - they are very powerful! Keep 'em coming!

    LOL @ Quotes! Should I add this to the list of objections?!!!

    "Well, if it's true, that's the biggest BOO BOO I've ever heard of.

    Quotes and Alan - you guys sure can just rattle them off! Something tells me you've both had to answer these objections before....! Thanks for sharing!!!

    bebu - I'm with you! Sometimes just getting in their face is a wake-up call all in itself! Hello! McFly!!! *knocking on hard head* Is anyone in there?!

    Gumby - You are right! I don't know that there will ever be a mass exodus from the WT. There are simply too many that don't want to open their eyes and will believe any bull the WT espouses. But the rebuttals I've heard so far, IMHO, are great for people to use on individual friends/family members. But thanks for the reality check - I definitely need to be reminded from time to time!!!

    jgnat - I LOVE your response to "stunned silence"!

    AD - Anytime I hear the word "tricked" I instantly think of Satan. Hmmmm.... could it be that the F&DS is actually him?!

    Elsewhere - Excellent point and easy to remember, too!

    SYN - There is certainly no denying the WT's support of the UN when they have actually printed pro-UN propaganda that can be readily accessed! ('Tis just a little problem they are going to need to overcome!)

    Great come backs! Keep 'em coming!

    growedup

  • got my forty homey?
    got my forty homey?

    Same here as Gumby, its very hard to dissuade a Witness, especially one who has been indoctrinated for many years. They will respond with "Jehovah uses worldly organizations to get his will done on earth" or "this is propaganda created by those who are bitter who left the witnesses on a sour note". I know because my Father who has been a witness 35+ years will not even listen to me if I brough this up.

    Recently him and I spoke on the silent lambs issue and his response was this is created by bitter ones, same with the subliminal pictures in publications. Bottom line, when someone is ready to leave they leave the JW's and unfortunately thats not to many, in fact we just read about the Alziehmers sufferer who stills continues going to meeting and field service yet cannot remember anything else about thier lives.

  • imallgrowedup
    imallgrowedup

    40 -

    Jehovah uses worldly organizations to get his will done on earth

    Doesn't it just make you want to roll your eyes?!

    How did you respond?

    growedup

  • got my forty homey?
    got my forty homey?

    How can you respond to someone you love yet who threw me out of the house when I was 19 because I did not want to pioneer? Or someone who forced me to "confess" my sins to the elders so that I could have a place to sleep because I was homeless and addicted to crack two years later.

    The witnesses has destroyed my entire family, yet you still try to get along and forgive and forget the past, so I dont really get into heated debates with him. I pretty much just slowly chip away at his beliefs. Hey, I got him to read the two Ray Franz books, which afterword he threw away into the garbage. He then proceeded to call his friends in Brooklyn Bethel to get the low down on what kind of person Ray Franz was, and of course you know it was all bad.

  • imallgrowedup
    imallgrowedup

    40 -

    Sorry to hear that. I hope someday your chipping will make a big enough dent for him to wake up.

    growedup

  • lisavegas420
    lisavegas420

    I've sent a link to each of my Jehovah's Witness penpals. I've gotten one response back so far. I haven't decided how to respond. I'm hoping I'll get some ideas in this thread. Here's what he wrote back.,,,,,

    Why would the society apply for something that would support the U.N.? Had to be a good reason. Maybe to obtain inside information? or was it really the Watchtower society? Hard to believe. Great post...thanks Lisa
  • blondie
    blondie

    Most of those objections are strawmen.

    Hope I didn't duplicate anyone's answers but here is how I would respond:

    Objection

    : Apostates hacked into the UN website and posted it.

    Possible Response

    : You can bet The Society knows about this letter. There is no way The Society would stand for this being made public if it were not true. If this were bogus, they certainly would have contacted the UN by now and it would have been removed. Just to be sure, you may want to check the site again in a week or so to see if it is still there. If it is, then you will know that it was not placed there by hackers.

    Other Possible Responses:

    Ideas, anyone?!

    Another Idea? Why don?t you contact the WTS and make sure they know about this attack? Or why don?t you let the UN know this is a lie? Here?s how: give UN url or WTS phone number (check infospace).

    Objection:

    It's no big deal.

    Possible Response:

    Ideas, anyone?!

    On my post I showed that part of the charter is to use military force if necessary to bring about peace. "By accepting association with DPI, the organization (Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York) agreed to meet criteria for association, including support and respect of the principles of the Charter of the United Nations."

    That means the WTS was supporting the use of military force to bring about peace. The UN gets its member countries to donate soldiers to act under UN direction. Why that is happening now in many countries in turmoil.

    Blondie

  • Kenneson
    Kenneson

    "You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all of the time."

  • garybuss
    garybuss



    I don't plan on talking to any active Witnesses. In fact I plan on NOT talking to active Witnesses. They are as welcome as a case of ass rot. If they are happy as Witnesses, I have nothing for them. If they are not happy as Witnesses, I think they have earned that. May that continue.

    Witnesses that are questioning who have contacted me want to know if there is a god, if there is a right religion, they are past this UN information having some impact on them. Most want to know how to get away without being shunned, or how to get their abusive mother to quit the group so she will be the kind warm loving mother of their dreams.

    The UN thing is big to us, but it is not big to believing Witnesses. The Generation of 1914 change of 1995 was HUGE and it barely made a ripple. People who like being Witnesses stay in spite of everything they already see and know is wrong, they don't care. People who don't like being Witnesses quit or fade like I did and nothing could make us stay.

    For me, the real benefit to uncovering the UN information is to benefit those who are de-Towering. Those are receptive and appreciative and they know there are disagreements between the teachings about the behaviors and the actual behaviors, they just need help to find the proof. And proof there is.

    It's been an interesting year so far and it's only March:-) GaryB


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