"Where God Enters" 14th century Mystic,, Meister Eckhart

by frankiespeakin 27 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    I went to the library and pick up this book which is a translation of some of Meister Eckhart's sermons.

    He was a mystic, and scholar of the 13th and 14th century I pasted a little snipet and link here for those that are interested.

    I found it very interesting, and while all here may not appreciate it I know some will.

    http://www.bruderhof.com/articles/WhereGodEnters.htm

    Here in time we make holiday because the eternal birth which God the father bore and bears unceasingly in eternity is now born in time, in human nature. Saint Augustine says this birth is always happening. But if it does not happen in me, what does it profit me? What matters is that it shall happen in me.

    We intend therefore to speak of this birth as taking place in us, as being consummated in the virtuous soul, for it is in the perfect soul that God speaks his word. What I shall say is true only of the devout man, of him who has walked and is still walking in the way of God, not of the natural undisciplined man who is entirely remote from and unconscious of this birth.

    There is a saying of the wise man, "When all things lay in the midst of silence, then leapt there down into me from on high, from the royal throne, a secret word." This sermon is about this word.

    Concerning it three things are to be noted. The first is where in the soul God the father speaks his Word, where she is receptive of this act, where this birth occurs. The second, has to do with man's conduct in relation to this act, this interior speaking, this birth. The third point will deal with the profit, and how great it is, that accrues from this birth.

    Note in the first place that in what I am about to say I intend to use natural proofs that you yourselves can grasp, for though I put more faith in the scriptures than myself, nevertheless it is easier and better for you to learn by arguments that can be verified.

    First we will take the words, "In the midst of the silence there was spoken in me a secret word." But, sir, where is the silence and where the place in which the word is spoken?

    To begin with, it is spoken in the purest, noblest ground, yes, in the very center of the soul. That is mid-silence, for no creature ever entered there, nor any image, nor has the soul there either activity or understanding, therefore she is not aware of any image either of herself or any creature. Whatever the soul effects, she effects with her powers. When she understands, she understands with her intellect. When she remembers, she does so with her memory. When she loves, she does so with her will. She works then with her powers and not with her essence.

    Now every exterior act is linked with some means. The power of seeing is brought into play only through the eyes; elsewhere she can neither do nor bestow such a thing as seeing. And so with all the other senses; their operations are always effected through some means or other. But there is no activity in the essence of the soul; the faculties she works with emanate from the ground of the essence, but in her actual ground there is mid-silence; here alone is a rest and habitation for this birth, this act, wherein God the father speaks his word, for she is intrinsically receptive of nothing but the divine essence, without means. Here God enters the soul with his all, not merely with a part. God enters the ground of the soul.

    None can touch the ground of the soul but God. No creature is admitted into her ground, it must stop outside in her powers. There it sees the image whereby it has been drawn in and found shelter. For when the soul's powers contact a creature, they set out to make of the creature an image and likeness which they absorb. By it they know the creature. Creatures cannot enter the soul, nor can the soul know anything about a creature whose image she has not willingly taken into herself. She approaches creatures through their present images, an image being a thing that the soul creates with her powers. Be it a stone, a rose, a person, or anything else she wants to know about, she gets out the image of it which she has already taken in and thus is able to unite herself with it. But an image received in this way must of necessity enter from without through the senses. Consequently, there is nothing so unknown to the soul as herself. The soul, says the philosopher, can neither create nor absorb an image of herself. So she has nothing to know herself by. Images all enter through the senses, hence she can have no image of herself. She knows other things but not herself. Of nothing does she know so little as herself, owing to this arrangement.

    Now you must know that inwardly the soul is free from means and images; that is why God can freely unite with her without form or image. You cannot but attribute to God without measure whatever power you attribute to a master. The wiser and more powerful the master, the more immediately is his work effected and the simpler it is. Man requires many instruments for his external works; much preparation is needed before he can bring them forth as he has imagined them. The sun and moon, whose work is to give light, in their mastership perform this very swiftly: the instant their radiance is poured forth, all the ends of the earth are filled with light. More exalted are the angels, who need fewer means for their works and have fewer images. The highest Seraph has but a single image. He seizes as a unity all that his inferiors regard as manifold. Now God needs no image and has no image: without image, likeness, or means does God work in the soul, in her ground wherein no image ever entered other than himself with his own essence. This no creature can do.

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas

    alt

    "God is infinite in his simplicity and simple in his infinity. Therefore he is everywhere and is everywhere complete. God is in the innermost part of each and every thing." -- Meister Eckhart

    In other words: the separation between us and God exists only in our mind and it's beliefs.

    j

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    JT,

    I think M E believes it is necessary to detach oneself from all sensible things, from all creatures and from the self, before the soul can be united with or experience God.

    According to what I have read of M E this of coarse is impossible to do unaided by God Himself. The soul is distracted by the senses and intellect on purpose by God.

    For once the she(the soul) is united nothing else matters it is just God and the soul everything else is gone from veiw and desire or recognition. The lovers have joined outside of time and space and nothing interests the soul from that point. At least that's what I think he saying in his writtings.

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas

    Frankie, I went the way of Christian Mysticism for many a year. It is the same core message of the mystics within all religions. However there comes a time to let go of teachings and go deeper into your own sense of being. True mysticism is only a finger pointing.....to you.

    I think M E believes it is necessary to detach oneself from all sensible things, from all creatures and from the self, before the soul can be united with or experience God.

    Yes, this is the way. It is necessary to die before we live. There is the requisite of letting go of everything we cherish and hold dear, that we stand naked before Truth wanting only Truth. This includes surrender of the belief in our own existence separate from truth (everything we believe ourselves to be and our relationship to the universe). All this happens within our consciousness, so it is not necessary to leave our loved ones and go live in a cave. Physical or phenomenal ceremony and actions are of little importance. The meaningful and real significance is within the depths of our being.

    According to what I have read of M E this of coarse is impossible to do unaided by God Himself.

    Ultimately God/Truth/Reality is all there is. The individual entity, separate from God/Truth we believe ourselves to be is illusion; much like a dream. The illusional character has no power to do anything. So, of course, in truth, it's all up to God/Reality. (it is important to note here, that much of the problem of understanding this comes from us incorporating preconceived ideas, beliefs and concepts of what "God" is. We were raised to think of or view God as an entity or thing moving about through time and space. This is wrong. God is not within the universe, The universe is within God, is God, as is all things, yet when all things are gone, God remains untouched. Better to forget the word "God" and all it's baggage, and instead sense the ungraspable nature of Being, Truth, Reality, Actuality, Life, Consciousness, Awareness, Silence. These are not so easy to put in a box.)

    The soul is distracted by the senses and intellect on purpose by God.

    All happens through God. Ultimately God, is all there is. So, when we believe we are separate from God, we are really just God, hiding from Itself.

    For once the she(the soul) is united nothing else matters it is just God and the soul everything else is gone from view and desire or recognition. The lovers have joined outside of time and space and nothing interests the soul from that point. At least that's what I think he saying in his writings.

    What happens is the illusory sense of separation or duality ends. It is seen that there never really was two lovers joining, only God awakening to God. From that point on the world looks the same, except there is no place where you end or begin...it is all -- I Am....and you love it as yourself -- because it is. (this is not a super ego experience. The ego is gone. You are everything and no-thing. A complete and wondrous mystery). This has been the united message of the mystics throughout time no matter the diversity of their backgrounds and religions, or lack of religion. (It seems wise to stand up and take notice when such a unification emerges out of our vast differences). The problem is we keep thinking we are working our way towards some great spiritual something....when all along what we seek is what we truly are -- already. j

  • Sunnygal41
    Sunnygal41

    Hi, Frankie! I've read a little tiny bit about Meister Eickert..........usually just quotes from other people.........liked what I heard.................

    JT, that was a very "understandable" post about mysticism! LOL! I've been struggling with it "intellectually" and I guess that's been my problem.........I lean strongly towards these concepts myself, because they make sense........I especially liked this comment of yours:

    This has been the united message of the mystics throughout time no matter the diversity of their backgrounds and religions, or lack of religion. (It seems wise to stand up and take notice when such a unification emerges out of our vast differences).
    I think that they agree because it is spirituality, not religion that is the uniting belief.........
  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    JT,

    Thanks for the imput.

    All happens through God. Ultimately God, is all there is. So, when we believe we are separate from God, we are really just God, hiding from Itself.
    When you think about it, I guess that it in a nut shell.
    What happens is the illusory sense of separation or duality ends. It is seen that there never really was two lovers joining, only God awakening to God. From that point on the world looks the same, except there is no place where you end or begin...it is all -- I Am....and you love it as yourself -- because it is. (this is not a super ego experience. The ego is gone. You are everything and no-thing. A complete and wondrous mystery).
    I read this book I think it is called "the edge of nothing" the author is a science writer. It nicely discribes the whole universe as a clever manipulation of "nothing" matter-antimatter as canceling out each other positive-negative etc.... That is one reason I find the mystic so interesting it seems they point that way too.
    This has been the united message of the mystics throughout time no matter the diversity of their backgrounds and religions, or lack of religion. (It seems wise to stand up and take notice when such a unification emerges out of our vast differences).
    I think so, they are on to something, that is unifying.
    I often wonder where our evolution and the evolution of the universe or universes, for that matter, are leading or what is the destination. Could it be greater and greater understanding though a greater evolved intellect but never approaching "Ultimate Reality" which is unknowable by intellect?
  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    Here a quote and link from M E that talks about nothing:

    http://www.ccel.org/e/eckhart/sermons/htm/vii.htm#vii

    Some folk say: "I love my friends, who do me kindness, more than other people." Such love is imperfect and incomplete; it is like having your sails only half-tilled with wind. When I love anyone as much as myself, I would just as soon that joy or sorrow, death or life were mine, as well as his. That would be the dictate of right reason.

    St Paul felt such love when he said, "I would that I were cut off from God for my friends' sake." Now to be cut off from God is equivalent to suffering the pains of hell. Some ask whether St Paul was on the way to perfection or was perfect. I answer, he was perfect, or he would have spoken otherwise.

    I wish further to elucidate this saying of St Paul that he was willing to be cut off from God. The highest act of renunciation for man is for God's sake to give up God, and that is what St Paul was willing to do; to give up all the blessings that he might receive from God. When for God's sake he gave up God, God still remained with him, since God's essence is Himself, not any impression or reception of Himself. He who does so is a true man to whom no grief may happen, any more than it happens to the Divine Being. There is a somewhat in the soul that is, as it were, a blood-relative of God. It is one, it has nothing in common with nothing, nor is it like nothingness, nothing. All that is created is nothing, all far from and foreign to the soul. Could I but find myself one instant in that sphere of pure existence, I should regard myself as little as a worm.

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas
    I've been struggling with it "intellectually" and I guess that's been my problem.........I lean strongly towards these concepts myself, because they make sense........

    Sunny, mysticism can be difficult for many reason. One being that spoken and written language was created for expression within the phenomenal world of objective duality, while what the mystic is attempting to express is non-duel. This problem is escalated within Christian Mysticism as Christian scripture and phraseology is extremely dualistic in nature; as if to make it purposefully confusing (which may be the case for there indeed was a time when the deeper significance was believed to be for only a select few....not for everyone). I have found there to be teachings less cryptic and far more to the point. The message is the same, it's just very clear. That said, no matter how clear, the best the message can do is point back to you. We then have to take the message seriously and shift attention from the mind and it's commentary, beliefs and emotions, and into this moment and our most intimate sense of being. A message or teacher can not do that for you......and it is not easy and can be very frightening to let go of all we know and walk naked and alone into the unknown within.

    JT, Thanks for the imput.

    Frankie, you're most welcome; the pleasure is mine.

    I often wonder where our evolution and the evolution of the universe or universes, for that matter, are leading or what is the destination. Could it be greater and greater understanding though a greater evolved intellect but never approaching "Ultimate Reality" which is unknowable by intellect?

    Yes, it is easy to fall into wondering as we look out at the brightness and excitement of phenomena. However, t he "ultimate Truth" is not a relative or intellectually understandable "objective thing" within phenomena. It is what is Real, and Actual of our Being, our True-Identity, the deepest and most intimate embrace and flowing of Life Itself. It is what is here now when all the intellectual boxes and all other boxes (which blind us) have been removed or seen through. There is no religion, belief system or science that can give us what we already truly are; they will only create more boxes and more questions. We need to see and discover undeniably for ourselves, within ourselves, within the intimacy of the consciousness which reads this right now. j

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    Sunny,

    I'm very sorry I didn't say hello. I'm at work and sometimes get very busy, so I don't have time to read all the post right now. So please excuse me for my lack of manners, because I don't mean to be rude.

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    Here a link::www.digiserve.com/mystic/Christian/Eckhart/F_topics.htm

    If I say that "God is good", this is not true. I am good, but God is not good! In fact, I would rather say that I am better than God, for what is good can become better and what can become better can become the best! Now God is not good, and so he cannot become better. Since he cannot become better, he cannot become the best. These three are far from God: "good", "better", "best", for he is wholly transcendent. If I say again that "God is wise", then this too is not true. I am wiser than he is! Or if I say that "God exists", this is also not true. He is being beyond being: he is a nothingness beyond being. Therefore St. Augustine says: "The finest thing that we can say of God is to be silent concerning him from the wisdom of inner riches." Be silent therefore, and do not chatter about God, for by chattering about him, you tell lies and commit a sin. If you wish to be perfect and without sin, then do not prattle about God. Also you should not wish to understand anything about God, for God is beyond all understanding. A master says: If I had a God that I could understand, I would not regard him as God. If you understand anything about him, then he is not in it, and by understanding something of him, you fall into ignorance... (pp. 236-7)

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit