2034's Coming! UN is banning Religion! Where is the urgency?

by Nosferatu 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • Nosferatu
    Nosferatu

    It seems that Jehovah's spirit disoriented organization has really made a mess with this one. People are speculating about 2034. Throw the whole UN thing about banning religion into the mix. Jehovah's people are now saying that Armageddon's right around the corner (but what else is new?).

    What really gets me is that whenever the Society sees one of their propecy's coming true (and ignores all the facts), they don't come up with anything new to bring on the greater urgency.

    JW: Armageddon's coming!
    Worldling: Ah f*** off, I heard you the first time 30 years ago.

    The JWs need something (ie Millions now living, or Do more til' '34) to promote this happy event (or happy stupidity). They need to make the urgency happen. Get email lists, throw a parade, have a live webcast, or something. What the hell ever happened to the spirit when Rutherford was in power? Sure he was a stupid drunk, but he knew how to create urgency.

  • joenobody
    joenobody

    It's tough for the Governing Body to get anything done when the better part of the day is spent napping.

  • franklin J
    franklin J

    I do not understand the "mind set" of the last days scenario myself.

    Although I have distanced myself from the JW beliefs and any possible influence; I do recall the "persecution complex" we all shared as Jehovahs Witnesses. There was always some kind of persecution going on of witnesses somewhere; with the threat of going global ( according to all those Awake magazines I remember reading as a kid. As a child I remember being indoctrinated to "prepare for the persecution". This is a terrible thing to teach any child.

    As an outsider looking back; and hearing this comment, all I can say is " Why would the UN ban religion?" Who cares what Jehovahs Witnesses do with themselves? The truth is ---NO ONE CARES. They are of no consequence on the world stage.

    The Jehovahs Witnesses are just another middle tier religion, like so many others in a free society.

    And now a rumor of the UN banning religion? This is nonsense.

    JWs are allowed to preach freely in the USA,( just like AVON) and elsewhere from what I can see. They are no more annoying than any other door to door salesman.

    And they will continue to blow their trumpet about the last days; and persecution. It is, most likely, the only ploy they have got to "shake people up" ( it sure is not their people skills that attract people)

    I like to think that those of us in this forum already have heard that tune.

  • Reborn2002
    Reborn2002

    I found the following article to be relevant to the discussion within this thread. I can just see the Watchtower Society utilizing current news such as this and incorporating it into their Assembly programs to support the notion that Babylon the Great (governments) will turn on religion, religion will be outlawed, the JW will be persecuted, Jehovah will step in, etc.

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=6&u=/ap/20040210/ap_on_re_eu/france_head_scarves_6

    The Witnesses are still Chicken Little and the sky is still falling. I remember when I was a child 15 years ago how the end was imminent. I have heard firsthand accounts from individuals who were Witnesses before I was born, and how the end was coming in 1975. For me, when the first Gulf War broke out in 1991, the Witnesses proclaimed from the platform that the end was here. They used their 1914 generation doctrine (70-80 years, since rescinded in 1995) to support it. Then I remember 9/11. Boy was Armaggedon here!

    Anyway, here is the article reposted in full.

    French Lawmakers OK Religious Apparel Ban

    By ELAINE GANLEY, Associated Press Writer

    PARIS - France's lower house of parliament voted overwhelmingly Tuesday to ban students from wearing Islamic head scarves and other religious apparel in public schools.

    The classroom ban, which also applies to Jewish skullcaps and large Christian crosses, was approved 494-36. In early March, the measure will go to the Senate, where there is little opposition.

    The measure was expected to take effect in September. Applying the law could be the real test: Critics say it's too vague, will create chaos in the classroom, and will inflame anti-French feelings among the nation's large Muslim minority.

    The bill stipulates that "in schools, junior high schools and high schools, signs and dress that conspicuously show the religious affiliation of students are forbidden." It would not apply to students in private schools or to French schools in other countries.

    Sanctions for refusing to remove conspicuous religious symbols and clothing would range from a warning, to temporary suspension from school, to expulsion.

    The bill got far more than the 288 votes in the 577-seat National Assembly needed to pass ? a measure of its wide popularity within France, demonstrated repeatedly in public opinion polls.

    French leaders hope a law will quell the debate over head scarves that has divided France since 1989, when two young girls were expelled from their school in Creil, outside Paris, for wearing head scarves. Scores more have been expelled since then.

    The government argues that a law is needed to protect France's secular traditions and to ward off rising Islamic fundamentalism.

    "This law is for us indispensable," said Martine David, a Socialist lawmaker. Teachers "need a clear judicial framework."

    Parliament's majority party ? the Union for a Popular Movement ? agreed Thursday to a last-minute amendment by the Socialists that calls for an evaluation of the law a year after it takes effect.

    Lawmakers want the option, if necessary, of being able to alter language banning "conspicuous" symbols to "visible" ones ? in order to eliminate vagueness or ambiguity.

    The governing UMP party also added an amendment to ensure that mediation takes place before any sanctions are imposed ? another Socialist suggestion.

    France has been widely condemned in the Arab and Muslim world, where thousands of protesters from Beirut to Baghdad have made known their indignation and opposition to a head scarf ban.

    The issue has also proven to be sharply divisive among France's Muslims ? at 5 million, Western Europe's largest Islamic community. Many believe that banning head scarves is a way to exclude Muslim girls from public schools and further ostracize their community.

    Sociologist Farhad Khosrokhavar says the law will be "the beginning of the problem."

    "Even those who do not wear the head scarf will feel offended," said Khosrokhavar, author of "The Head Scarf and the Republic."

    "Instead of fighting against Islamic radicalism, it might encourage it," he told Associated Press Television News.

    But other Muslims here believe the key to successful integration is to live the values of their adopted land.

    "I arrived in France and adapted to this country," said 65-year-old Telly Naar, who came from Morocco 40 years ago. "Each should be able to practice religion at home. If one wants to wear the headscarf outside, fine, but not inside a school that is secular."

    Some said the debate helped expose the danger of Islamic fundamentalism and will help roll back radicalism.

    "Until now families were alone in fighting fundamentalists, often in the shadows, and at danger to their safety," said Hanifa Cherifi, mediator for the national education system on the head scarf issue in schools.

    The debate "lifted the veil on fundamentalist thinking, which is taking a population hostage," she said on French parliamentary TV.

  • imallgrowedup
    imallgrowedup

    It took me several years of regular attendance at a Christian church that never once has ever mentioned "Armageddon" to understand why they haven't - and why the JW's do. Here is my take:

    JW's use Armageddon as a motivational tool. It is a negative motivator - true - but the reason the imminent threat of Armageddon is so fearful to JW's is because the WT teaches that Jehovah may find any particular Witness unworthy on the "judgment day". This fear keeps the Witnesses out selling magazines and under their control spreading the good news and recruiting so they dare not leave the borg for fear of the consequences - death at Armageddon.

    This whole hoopla about the UN banning religion is exactly that - hoopla. And as far as I am concerned, it is the WT who loves anything that may even smack of it, and will take that information and twist it anyway they can. In fact, my jw mother actually sent me one of those "The UN is Banning Religion" e-mails, and I sat down and completely debunked it. (Link: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/66148/1.ashx) For what it's worth, she and my step-dad are coming down this weekend - no doubt to tell me how disillusioned I am. Imagine their surprise when they see all the evidence I have gathered! And even if they don't believe it, at least I hope it will plant the seed.

    The truth of the matter is that it doesn't really matter when Armageddon comes - as long as we are always ready for it. But the WT needs the R&F to believe it is sitting on the corner to keep the slaves them in line. IMHO - it's just propaganda.

    growedup

  • Spudinator
    Spudinator

    Here is a link to a related thread at a JW site:

    2034 Hype Hitting Home, Premature U.N. Hype Raising it's Ugly Head

    http://www.touchstoneforum.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.pl?az=read_count&om=374&forum=DCForumID2

  • dustyb
    dustyb

    btw, UN won't ban religion because all of the muslim countries would bail out instantly, and even the vatican has a seat on the UN....which would mess things up pretty good.

  • mustang
    mustang

    Good point, dusty:

    To even try to fulfill its role, the UN has to "keep the numbers up".

    In other words, it definitely has to pay attention to "retention".

    So, since most UN members favor or espouse some form of religion, the UN has a vested interest in NOT messing with it (religion).

    And if it (the UN) drives away the members it can't even attempt to influence everybody.

    Attempting influence and diplomatic effects is the UN's only real function.

    (The UN doesn't have any real power; look at the minor pounding it took in Iraq (very minor compared to the "there every day US"). And it immediately turned tail and ran.)

    The UN is indeed a "debating society"; actually there is a place and need for one of these, of the UN's caliber.

    BTW, remember the Security Council veto? Nobody will get enough votes!!!

    Mustang

  • SYN
    SYN

    As far as I can tell, it seems that only the 2034 issue was "hinted at" by the Tower. They're not stupid enough to even mention the whole, utterly ludicrous "proposal to ban religion" spiel in their literature. I mean, a lot of the people at the top bear more than a passing resemblance to rocks when it comes to leaping over mental hurdles, but even they aren't that stupid! However, it's typical for a bunch of people who're eagerly awaiting something along these lines to yearn for even the tiniest glimmer of "light" in their situation.

    And, as is also quite common for Witnesses, and much lamented on this site, they've taken the ball and really, really run far with it, without bothering to do any proper research.

    Good grief!

  • imallgrowedup
    imallgrowedup

    Spudinator -

    Nice link. Sounds to me like "Arsynic" is a mole. Not willing enough to jump on the bandwagon. It would be fun if you could keep an eye out on that link (and others) for us. We LOVE to see them here!

    BTW - I don't believe I have welcomed you to the board - so - WELCOME!!!

    Syn,

    And, as is also quite common for Witnesses, and much lamented on this site, they've taken the ball and really, really run far with it, without bothering to do any proper research.

    I think you are right! This is a big problem in the WT. I think they get scared when they see their numbers drop, so they pad them, then find something like the formulism stuff to work everyone into a frenzy. The WT wanted every member to think that religion was being banned so they would see that they could claim a prophesy coming true! However, I bet they didn't stop long enough to think about what would happen the next week - or the week after - when it didn't come to pass. I'd ask, "What were they thinking?" but I think I already know the answer to it. They weren't! (oooooooooooh! something new with the Society!)

    dustyb and mustang are also right on the mark. It would be completely counter-productive for the UN to ban religion. I think they know darn well that banning religion would only cause the Islamic terrorist wannabe's to come rushing out of the closet with every weapon of every kind and bring about it's own kind of Armageddon. So, no - right now, I don't think the world is ready to ban religion - at least - not now.

    growedup

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