How Life May have Started on This Planet Without YHWH

by fulltimestudent 13 Replies latest jw friends

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    Some may be interested in this research from the Scripps Research Institute.

    This research and its conclusion builds on previous work, Quote: "In a study published in the chemistry journal Angewandte Chemie, they demonstrated that a simple compound called diamidophosphate (DAP), which was plausibly present on Earth before life arose, could have chemically knitted together tiny DNA building blocks called deoxynucleosides into strands of primordial DNA.

    The finding is the latest in a series of discoveries, over the past several years, pointing to the possibility that DNA and its close chemical cousin RNA arose together as products of similar chemical reactions, and that the first self-replicating molecules -- the first life forms on Earth -- were mixes of the two."

    Read more at this Science Daily web-site ...

    Link: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/12/201228095428.htm

  • waton
    waton

    fts thank you for those details. but no matter how you describe the process, it still amounts to work accomplished with energy and laws that the universe was endowed with. energy that is uncreated. laws that would not exist if they were not providing a viable platform to operate in.

    the Y question is another matter, a minor detail.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Finding the mechanism for how life began is not the same as finding the reason why we live in a universe that is set up in such a way as to make life and consciousness possible—or even inevitable—as the case may be.

    Some people say consciousness doesn’t require any explanation. It’s just a weird combination of atoms, organised over time by natural processes, that happens to produce a certain effect or sensation. But I can’t buy that story.

    To solve the problem some have suggested there are infinite universes, and life and consciousness only arise in some. I don’t find that convincing either. But even if it were true, we would still live in a system of infinite universes, that somehow makes possible, in some permutations of it, the arrival of conscious beings.

    Why should reality consist of infinite permutations that in some cases produce conscious life forms? Why should conscious beings be one of the possibilities that can be selected from infinite permutations? Like picking one DVD off a shelf filled with infinite DVDs and playing one that has conscious life in it. But why is it even an option in the first place? Why does reality involve such a DVD in the first place, so that it’s even available as a choice, beside the infinite others? Couldn’t there be infinite universes in none of which conscious life arises? Why should consciousness be a “thing” that is possible to occur?

    Anyway I don’t really follow the infinite universes idea. It’s clearly an attempt to avoid the question why the universe is structured in a way to give rise to conscious beings. It’s a hard question that’s not shrugged off so easily as that.

  • MLWeeb
    MLWeeb

    Of course everything appoints to a lack of Creator.

    Complexity is not a trademark of a design, but the contrary. The Universe, enthropic in nature, not fine-tuned, lacks anything, not a single clue, for being a creation.
    Only personal opinions based on indoctrination could lead to believe a god similar to what any human has considered, and that if any deity is here, it's a result of the universe and not vice-versa.

  • pistolpete
    pistolpete

    I personally believe in a creator and all life on earth is the result of intelligent design.

    ………………………………………………………………………………………..

    Now that all the cat claws are out and ready to strike, let me elaborate.

    By creator, I don’t mean God or Jehovah. But something or someone with intelligence. Maybe even a “Group of Beings” with intelligence, involved in some project.

    What was the purpose of creating life one earth? I have no idea. There doesn’t seem to be any communication of sorts, or some sort of manual on how to run things on this planet, let alone on why all life was created.

    If I was to explain what life is all about based on the hard evidence I see around me, and consider the history from the past that we’ve been able to save and study, it would seem like the creator was more like a kid with an ant farm. Or Creators with a sophisticated lab!

    Life on earth does not evoke good intentions. The way some animals are designed to be docile, friendly, harmless, and other animals designed to survive by killing the docile, friendly and harmless animals speaks more of some kind of lab experiment. One that has compassion absent from it.

    Humans are worse because we kill for other reasons besides food. We kill for power, jealousy, to steal, to rape and a hundred other reasons. Is this what happens when the animal has higher cognitive functions?

    With this in mind, I think the creators might have been looking for answers to certain possibilities. Is it possible for a creature of higher consciousness like that of a human mind, that is capable of transcending animal instincts, able to evolve to the point where the self destruct qualities of the need for power, jealousy and etc. can be completely eliminated?

    I also think these creators that are responsible for life on earth are long gone----dead for a better word.

    Just like today we have buildings that were created thousands of years ago by Human Creators. Yet these creators have been gone or dead for thousands of years.

    For example; The Tarxien Temples. Year Built: between 3600 – 2500 BCE – Location - Tarxien, Malta

    I think religion is keeping us humans from transcending. The belief in an afterlife is a good excuse to commit atrocities and still believe all is forgiven in the afterlife whether that be heaven or paradise earth.

    But if everyone realized this was the only life we get, we would be more careful on the way we live our lives, instead of wasting time seeking the approval of some man-made deity and enriching the pastor, clergy, or Organization claiming to represent the rules of that deity.

    I don’t think humans will ever know how life got started on earth unless some outside source gives us the information. But I’m sure there will be more stories on how it all got started.

  • Magnum
    Magnum

    I'm still open to the possibility of some higher being(s)' being behind our existence. pistolpete writes that he thinks this being (or these beings) are dead. I have considered that possibility, but I hope it's not true. I still long for some kind of help from a higher source for all the problems (mainly suffering) we have on earth.

    I've recently been watching some YouTube videos on particle physics, quantum field theory, etc. It's just mind-blowing. One who has no knowledge at all of such cannot begin to comprehend reality. The more I learn about such, the more I am inclined to believe in some higher being(s).

    It's fascinating how our understanding has progressed. For a long time, it was thought that atoms were the fundamental building blocks of nature - that they were indivisible. Then, not too long ago (late 1800's) the electron was discovered, indicating that atoms aren't fundamental. It was then realized that atoms have a nucleus consisting of protons and neutrons. So, for a while, electrons, protons, and neutrons were considered to be fundamental. Then, it was discovered that protons and neutrons are composed of quarks.

    According to our current, most accepted understanding, fundamental particles aren't really particles in the sense that many might think. In other words, they are not like little tiny balls or objects; they have no internal structure and are thought of as being zero-dimensional points in space. As best I understand so far, they are perturbations of quantum fields.

    It just blows my mind to consider that our bodies and everything we experience come from perturbations of quantum fields. It blows my mind to think that consciousness could arise from such.

    Learning more about particle physics, quantum field theory, etc. are making me more open to something I've considered the last few years - that some kind of programming or software could be behind it all.

    Kind of similar to what pistolpete wrote, I've considered that maybe our world is just some lab experiment or maybe even something done just for entertainment by a higher being (or higher beings).

    The way that math describes the universe is fascinating. Physics (especially modern physics) is fascinating. It's hard to believe that it all just came about on its own. But then, if there is a higher being, it would be hard to believe that he didn't have some kind of origin. The existence of a higher being could explain our origin, but, it wouldn't answer the ultimate origin questions of how and why anything (including a creator) exists.

    When you've got some time, watch this video on math:

    https://youtu.be/8mve0UoSxTo?list=PLRxEhF7If641_4Slm_A30DK8STmSnle01

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    Quite simply, evolution is fact. It is not some impossible long odds against it, since the laws of chemistry that rule evolution are extremely strict. Life developed without any help from this usurper of credit, simply through the laws of chemistry. Then Satan came along quite some time before any of this rubbish started, and gave us a help and guided us. Result: What would have taken tens of billions of years was done in merely 500,000.

    Then, just before it would have been completed, joke-hova just had to go and meddle. That thing started all these corrupt religions from ancient pagan religions, starting with Judaism. That thing had all ancient history erased so no one could know that we once lived more than 800 years per lifetime, without any major medical problems. Our lifespan was reduced to 120 years under strict limits, and filled with many problems including diseases (including far worse than this stupid cold called covid-19).

    Eventually, christi-SCAM-ity came out of judaism, and this was used to slaughter anyone that had knowledge. At which point, it was forced upon us that joke-hova created life (a lie) so we would be forever indebted to that filth. And most of the conditions it imposed go against nature, and are designed to have us all enslaved (which is working, as we can see with all this coronavirus lockdown nonsense and forced vaccination). Our souls no longer go anywhere except to feed this joke-hova filth. Islam came later, and pretends to be against xianity. (They are really different branches of the same communist judaism religion.) Ultimately, both will merge into enforced Noahide Laws imposed worldwide, at which point just possessing knowledge that joke-hova created absolutely nothing but is a parasite will get you your head chopped off for "disrespect and blasphemy".

  • Mowgliandbalu
    Mowgliandbalu

    I want to thank you all! These are the enlightening discussions for which I love this forum!

  • pistolpete
    pistolpete
    Magnum

    pistolpete writes that he thinks this being (or these beings) are dead

    Just to clarify a little bit further, my musings about these intelligent Beings that created life on earth and my belief that they are long gone---------- Are Not The Same as the “One” who Created Everything else.

    That’s another story of who that being is and where he is now.

    But in regards to the Beings that created life on earth and are long gone, this is why I feel this way.

    The DNA and RNA that supposedly were responsible for life starting on earth---Were already here to begin with. DNA is not some bumbling creation as compared to the way “Some” life on earth was created.

    DNA is a very complex molecule that carries genetic instructions for the development, functioning, growth and reproduction of all known organisms and many viruses. Just taking the time to study it for a few months elicits wonder and amazement.

    Then you have RNA which is another wonder and just as complex as DNA.

    “The DNA molecule has often been described as the most efficient information storage system in the entire universe. The immensity of complex, coded and precisely sequenced information written on the DNA is absolutely staggering. The evidence speaks of intelligent, information-bearing design”

    These two complex molecules were already here on earth.

    And just like any student who walks into his first year of Chemistry lab, -------everything needed to experiment, gain knowledge, create new substances, and pass the course is provided by the College. The student doesn’t have to make Chemicals, Glassware, Scales, Safety equipment, and etc., because those items have already been created by other “Intelligent” life, and provided by the College to the student wanting to experiment or learn.

    I also don’t think that the Intelligent Beings responsible for life on earth were the same ones who created the Earth. Most people who believe that the same one who created earth is the same one who created life on earth. This is the result of believing in the God of the Bible who is said to have created all things, so it their default position the ONE Being created all.

    It’s very difficult for people with this belief to consider other possibilities.

    Even though we see many examples here on our planet. They are called projects. When a skyscraper is built, you have many minds contributing to the project. An engineer, an Architect, a plumber, electricians, and so forth all contribute to an immense project like a skyscraper. Why would it be difficult “TO CONSIDER” the Possibility that perhaps “Many” were involved in creating Life, The Earth, and so on. All these Creators are working within the Platform of “Already Created Items” that already exist.

    Now let’s consider just life on earth. As we examine life on earth, we see what seems to be a lot of bumbling mistakes. An owner’s manual would have have helped avoid billions of mistakes that have led to billions of years of suffering by both humans and animals.

    It doesn’t take a lot of logic and knowledge as a creator to know that creating animals that need meat to survive, like the lion will cause a lot of havoc among the docile and tame animals. It also doesn’t take a lot of knowledge from an omniscient creator to put fail save systems on human birth that will prevent birth defects.

    If everlasting life was not meant to be,then a compassionate Creator would have created a system in humans that would skip the old age effect. In other words no losing your eyesight as you get older, no losing your hair, not getting wrinkled as the years go by, not losing your physical appearance or strength, as this is very demeaning to one’s mental health.

    Instead a compassionate Creator would have made human life in such a way that minimized pain and suffering up to the last day of life. In other words, and internal clock set between 100-200 years as an example. Once that timer hits-----then just an abrupt death without the suffering old age brings. Just like a brand new car that suddenly stops after eight years. Without the rust that eats away at the metal.

    It seems like the reason there were no owner’s manual for humanity was because the creators didn’t know “fully” what they were doing.

    Today we as humans know better than to “create” some tool, like a vacuum cleaner and not include an owner’s manual on how to use it efficiently and safely. Only a complete moron would make some tool for sale without any support from the maker. The only way this has happen today is when a company makes some item and sell millions, then goes out of business. No more support!

    Perhaps this is why there is no support for human life----those Being who created life on earth are long gone.

  • titch
    titch

    Pistolpete, and Magnum: Interesting concepts that you both offer to us. Best Regards...

    Titch.

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