Those who want to believe in god

by JimmyYoung 15 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • JimmyYoung
    JimmyYoung

    I find it funny how many people want to broad cast their religion on FB then whine whine when others critique it. Its like the NY Times saying no one has a right to criticize its oped. Don't put it on the world wide web if you don't want others opinion on it. LMAO. Funny how any religion I have ever encountered and I have studied a lot, none do well with real questions. Being raised in a religious cult the Jehovah's Witnesses I had many elders rubbing their head when I would use critical thinking to ask questions about its beliefs and the bible itself. Most Christians don't even know the history of their own religion. First off the bible was not handed down by god. It was a group of separate books and letters that were put together by Constantine the Greats bishops at the Council of Nicea in 312 CE. Before that time there were many books written by Christians like Thomas, Mary Magdalene and others that were thrown out or even burned. This was done so the narrative the council wanted to promote at that time would be pushed.

    Most Christians don't even know that there are no, not one book of the bible that is not a copy of a copy. No original writings exist or have been found. It would be like finding a letter written by George Washington that had been copied and copied and the only one found was one that had been copied some 300 years after GW died. The gospels are not even known who actually wrote them, its an attributed guess as to Mathew mark Luke and john., and so it is with the first 5 books where Moses is attributed as the writer but the actual writer writes about Moses death and burial.

    Then you have the geological column that shows no global flood ever occurred and the fossil record that shows Man and Dinosaurs did not exist at the same time by a long shot. The earth is not 6 thousand years old but some 4.5 billion and that is proven by science and radio active decay. Occam's Razor is a good way to look at the bible and religion. Which is more plausible that some goat herders who knew nothing of how the world worked wrote of how god created the world bla bla bla or that the world is in the shape its in because a supernatural creature disguised as a talking snake talked a woman made of a rib from a man made of mud was talked into eating a piece of fruit from a tree that dispensed knowledge and hence the fall of man. Sorry to all the Christians but this does not pass the smell test by miles.

  • The Fall Guy
    The Fall Guy
    I never frequent astrophysics web sites. Waste of time. :)
  • ZindagiNaMilegiDobaara
    ZindagiNaMilegiDobaara

    I agree with Jimmy Young "Man and Dinosaurs did not exist at the same time by a long shot. The earth is not 6 thousand years old but some 4.5 billion and that is proven by science and radio active decay. Occam's Razor is a good way to look at the bible and religion. Which is more plausible that some goat herders who knew nothing ".

    It is only now after waking up have I realized how gullible I was and trusting of the washtowel that everything is so so different than what jdumbs are taught.

    Washtower...where love crawls to die.

    Zing

  • cofty
    cofty

    JY - You appear to be making an assumption that all Christians are fundamentalists.

    What about all the millions of believers who accept the findings of biblical scholarship and of science?

    Do you think religion might have some utility even if it's not objectively true?

  • JimmyYoung
    JimmyYoung

    Cofty, no it does not. Its like picking out some good ideas in Mein Kampf or saying yes the Easter bunny is not real but this or that is a good idea about it. Or those who live in some Star Wars fantasy or other fictitious fantasy. The idea that murder is wrong is not something humans would do whole sale if not for the Bible. You are desperately trying to save something you know is BS. Toss it out you don't need it. Don't try to find a good piece of meat on a rotting carcass.

  • cofty
    cofty

    JY - Do you accept that your OP is an attack on fundamentalist Christianity?

    Biblical literalism demands belief in impossible things and is very easy to destroy. But that ignores the millions of christians - and people of other faiths - who find utility in religion without needing to lie to themselves.

    Religion is nothing like Mein Kampf is it? National Socialism was founded on the doctrine of Aryan racial superiority. There is absolutely nothing positive that can be retrieved from that. Christianity incorporates a lot of useful memes that go beyond the dictate that 'murder is wrong'.

    Have you read Jonathan Haidt's book The Righteous Mind? There is an interesting chapter titled Religion Binds and Blinds in which he looks at the evolutionary roots of religion and the way it enabled group cohesion. I'm still not sure how we replace that in a post-faith society. So far we seem to have come up environmentalism and intersectionality. I'm not in any hurry to see the end of Anglicanism and Universalists.

    Full disclosure - There is no supernatural realm and I would rather stick pins in my eyes than attend church. I'm genuinely thinking out loud on this. Dawkins sees all religion, however benign, as a mind virus. Hitch (god rest his genius soul) said that religion belongs to the infancy of our species. Harris allows for a distinction between more and less harmful religions but fears that mainstream religion facilitates dangerous ideas. You seem to see all religion as akin to Nazi dogma or a rotting carcass.

    I'm really not convinced.

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    Xian Religion definitely has utility. It’s an excellent tool for dulling the mental capacity of any given population. Xian’s by and large elected Trump.

    DD

  • smiddy3
    smiddy3

    Just a minor correction JY if I may ,JW /WT religion teach/taught that the earth was created 48,000 years ago not 6,000 years ago ,that was when Adam was suposed to have been created which is bloody ridiculous anyway.

    They claim/ed each creative day was 7000 years long and the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ would take us to 49,000 years of creation as far as Jehovah`s plan for the earth was concerned .

    And I can agree with most of what you say in your OP .

  • cofty
    cofty
    Xian Religion definitely has utility. It’s an excellent tool for dulling the mental capacity of any given population. - DD

    I'm not sure. It definitely causes a logical blind spot in matters directly connected to their faith but there are a lot of very intelligent xtians.

    When I was a xtian for 9 years I didn't find my fellow believers to be any less intelligent than my secular friends. I don't think I was any less clever as a xtian than I am now. I'm just better informed about a lot of stuff now.

    Do you accept that religion had utility in the history of our species? Should it now be entirely consigned to the past? If so what do we replace it with? Currently society is rallying around the secular religions of environmentalism and identity politics.

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    Blind spots... That’s a good description but I do not think that phrase accurately describes the full effect on the minds of stalwart believers, especially fundamentalists “Christians.”

    Should we consign religion to the past even though it had utility at some point in time? Absolutely. Especially if it’s harmful and an impediment to advancement.

    I believe this can only happen on an individual level, and then as individuals we can try to enlighten others; it can’t be forced and should not be legislated. This process has taken a long, long time and that’s not likely to change, probably not in our lifetime.

    Forcing others through violence of any kind, even verbal abuse, is a characteristic of Identity Politics and Ideological Possession which I find offensive and extremely dangerous since I started really looking into those topics.

    I believe Xian fundamentalists are possessed of an ideology as dangerous as any other. Ironically, it reminds me of a scripture that Jesus supposedly said. To paraphrase, “If the light that is in you is darkness, how great that darkness is.”

    If all of our thoughts and decisions are guided by a skewed sense of reality in an environment that constantly reinforces that faulty perception then our “light” is actually darkness; even more so if we aren’t even aware of the fact that we are possessed by an ideology, or blinded by Identity Politics.

    It’s frightening to consider.

    DD

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