C T Russell's involvement with the Freemasons re-evaluated

by Finkelstein 35 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    How much of that video do you accept as valid, Finkelstein?

    Some of its speculatively weak I admit but the information provided does create an overall picture of how much Russell accumulated his own self expressive theological ideas from the Freemason organization.

    The accumulation of evidence supports this from the Knights Templar symbol on the front cover of Zion's Watchtower and the fact that Russel used Masonic Halls for much of his public talks wherever he traveled about etc.

    Its sounds like your being dismissive in denial of this compiled evidence TD ?

    .......and yes I'm aware of other religious organizations using the Cross and Crown

    The author of the video comes across as out beyond Pluto here.

    Not that far as you may assume TD, if all the information he alluded to was way off then I would agree but it doesn't.

    The ending to Russell's theological expressions comes down to the fact that he thought he acquired unknown coded information that was previously undisclosed primarily by main stream Christendom.

    The WTS held onto that core ideological concept from much of its existence and utilized it as a marketing strategy toward the proliferation of the WTS's own publications.

    Russell and Rutherford assumed they cracked unknown messages or correct interpretation of the bible by being guided by God's Holy spirit and to reveal what they found to all mankind as prophetic saviors.

    The transcendental light from these men seems to have been tainted by adverse commercialism.

  • TD
    TD

    I think there is a major difference between the two, as linking to Freemasonry is really on the edge of satanism.

    What imagery are we talking about? Surely not the cross and crown? Freemasonry borrowed that from Christianity, not the other way around.

  • TD
    TD

    Its sounds like your being dismissive in denial of this compiled evidence TD ?

    I think we may be operating under two different standards of what constitutes, "evidence."

    I don't mean to be dismissive here, but it's coming across to me as a garden variety conspiracy theory. What I mean by that is no single piece of evidence stands out as extraordinary on its own, but (some) people nevertheless walk away with a gut feeling based on what they believe to be a greater pattern.

    I'm also wondering how many have the time, inclination and patience to familiarize themselves with the time period in question? It's awfully easy to project modern perceptions backwards without actually realizing it.

    That Russell was heavily influenced by popular culture at the time is undeniable, but I don't see anything dark or sinister in it. He was very obviously influenced by the Egyptology fad, for example, but so were a lot of other people and for that matter, the entire Art Deco movement was as well. People post pictures of the pyramid plot monument as if that was unusual at the time. It wasn't.

    My comment about the author being out beyond Pluto was specifically in reference to the emphasis he placed on the checkered floor pattern. LIke I said, this was almost certainly drawn from JW reference books and I'm still willing to bet that they stole that drawing from someone else. :-)

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    The core ideology of Freemasonry is a about freedom of structured dogma mostly seen from other religious organizations it is still structured around the bible and Christianity, the Knights Templars were .......

    Knights Templar

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Jump to: navigation, search
    This article is about the medieval Catholic military order. For other uses, see Knights Templar (disambiguation) and Templar (disambiguation).
    Knights Templar
    Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon
    Pauperes commilitones Christi Templique Salomonici Hierosolymitanis
    Seal of Templars.jpg A Seal of the Knights Templar[1]
    Activec. 1119–1312
    AllegianceThe Pope
    TypeWestern Christian military order
    Christian finance
    RoleProtection of Christian Pilgrims
    Size15,000–20,000 members at peak, 10% of whom were knights[2][3]
    HeadquartersTemple Mount, Jerusalem
    Nickname(s)The Order of Solomon's Temple
    PatronSt. Bernard of Clairvaux
    MottoNon nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam (Not unto us, O Lord, not unto us, but unto thy Name give glory)
    AttireWhite mantle with a red cross
    MascotTwo knights riding a single horse
    Engagements

    The Crusades, including:

    Commanders
    First Grand MasterHugues de Payens
    Last Grand MasterJacques de Molay
    Part of a series on the
    Knights Templar
    Templar Cross
    Full name
    Overview
    Papal bulls
    Locations
    Successors
    Litterature and research
    Cultural references
    See also


    The Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon (Latin: Pauperes commilitones Christi Templique Salomonici), commonly known as the Knights Templar, the Order of Solomon's Temple (French: Ordre du Temple or Templiers) or simply as Templars, were among the most wealthy and powerful of the Western Christian military orders[4] and were prominent actors in Christian finance. The organisation existed for nearly two centuries during the Middle Ages.

    Officially endorsed by the Roman Catholic Church around 1129, the Order became a favoured charity throughout Christendom and grew rapidly in membership and power. Templar knights, in their distinctive white mantles with a red cross, were among the most skilled fighting units of the Crusades.[5] Non-combatant members of the Order managed a large economic infrastructure throughout Christendom,[6] innovating financial techniques that were an early form of banking,[7][8] and building fortifications across Europe and the Holy Land.

    The Templars' existence was tied closely to the Crusades; when the Holy Land was lost, support for the Order faded. Rumours about the Templars' secret initiation ceremony created distrust, and King Philip IV of France, deeply in debt to the Order, took advantage of the situation. In 1307, many of the Order's members in France were arrested, tortured into giving false confessions, and then burned at the stake.[9] Under pressure from King Philip, Pope Clement V disbanded the Order in 1312. The abrupt disappearance of a major part of the European infrastructure gave rise to speculation and legends, which have kept the "Templar" name alive into the modern day.

  • park ave boy
    park ave boy

    What imagery are we talking about? Surely not the cross and crown? Freemasonry borrowed that from Christianity, not the other way around.

    How about the pyramid itself with the all seeing eye at the top triangle? The Knights of templar crown and cross?

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    What is interesting from my own viewpoint is how Russell infused ancient Egyptian mysticism with Christian theological beliefs and the bible, to create a semblance of his own theological structured teachings.

    Theological ideas that laid the grounding foundation of much of what would eventually become structured into the JWS Then again Russel wasn't a academically trained bible theologian, more of a amateur who gathered up what he thought was appealing and alluring to sell to the public. That old salesman acumen was still in the man from his previous clothing sales profession.

    He was in a sense a true Freemason under no ones dogmatic direction or governing regulation.

    Just like the GB of the WTS today uncountable to no one but themselves, they are essentially therefore Freemasons too.

  • TD
    TD

    park ave boy

    How about the pyramid itself with the all seeing eye at the top triangle?

    I guess I'm not seeing that. It looks like the tip in heaven theme to me. (Which I admit sounds a lot like the Tower of Babel mythology, but really isn't that unusual in cemeteries.)

    The Knights of templar crown and cross?

    Doesn't Christian use of the cross and crown in all its forms, (Kings crown, Crown of thorns, Processional cross, Portate cross) predate the Knights Templar by centuries?

    Is the use of the cross and crown by the Bible Students materially different than The Church of Christ Scientist use of it? I've got one of these books somewhere. I think they still give them away for free.


    Or the Daughters of Isabella? (Catholic)

    Or Baptists? Cross and Crown Baptist churches are as common as grass


    Or Lutherans?

    Or Methodists?


    I'm not aware of too many Christian denominations that don't use it, so I guess I'm not seeing the connection.

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    And does any of those religious institutions also use the symbol of the Knights Templar like what Russell had used ?

    You also see the winged disk symbol of Ra in Masonic Halls.

    Where is the symbolic imagery of the Pyramid in these religions ?

    Do these institutions also use Masonic Halls in their preaching ?

    Again more dismissive assertions upon the evidence.

  • cyberjesus
    cyberjesus

    Does the use of a symbol implies influence of ideology?

    Could it be that the other people who also used it were also influenced?

  • TD
    TD

    Finkelstein,

    And does any of those religious institutions also use the symbol of the Knights Templar like what Russell had used

    Are you talking about the upper right hand corner of Zion's Watch Tower? I've found very similar symbols in Catholic materials. But then the medieval order actually was Catholic wasn't it.? :-)

    You also see the winged disk symbol of Ra in Masonic Halls.

    Common in Art Deco Architecture as well. (I could post pictures of that too.) Russell was a little ahead of the curve on this one, but it was a national fascination and not as uncommon as it's being spun.

    Where is the symbolic imagery of the Pyramid in these religions ?

    I don't know about religious significance, but I do know that pyramid cemetery monuments were very common in late 19th and early 20th centuries.

    Again more dismissive assertions upon the evidence

    Well again, it's coming across as a garden variety conspiracy theory. You seem more convinced by what you perceive to be a greater pattern than by any single piece of evidence. Even the evidence itself is almost entirely a series of similarities and correlations when one of the cardinal rules of evidence is that correlation is not causation.

    Sorry to be a turd in the punch bowl here...

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