W. E. Vine, the Apostate the Watch Tower uses a LOT

by garybuss 15 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • garybuss
    garybuss



    W. E. VINE

    Page 59

    No matter affecting the welfare of the saints was overlooked. When any had been on annual holiday, there was always a cordial greeting and welcome on their return.

    When a church meeting was called, he always imparted to it a warm atmosphere, and spoke of it as a family gathering, and seemed to overlook nothing which might contribute to its helpfulness and smooth working.

    The periodic lectures he gave on prophetic and other subjects were designed to guide, protect and help the assembly, and having in mind a wider ministry the townsfolk were invited to attend. Sometimes he would take as a subject some of the present-day heresies whose little coteries of supporters stalk around the cities and towns of our land seeking to gain adherents. He would expose Jehovah's witnesses (see p. 121), Christadelphiansm, with its denial of the Trinity and the Deity of Christ and teaching conditional immortality; Theosophists, with their doctrine of universal brotherhood and system of investigation into the mystic potentialities of life and matter; Christian science, representing that God is mind and not a person; Seventh Day Adventists - a religion of Cain, leading the mind away from Christ to a side issue. Having thrust at some of these giants, he would say: "Most modern errors can be summed up in this way: All religions exhibit expressions of the divine - salvation without a Saviour, education without the word of God; spirituality without the Holy Spirit, creeds without Divine authority (see 1 Pet. iii. 15 and Jude 3, 21). Craving for the mysterious increases as faith in the Divine revelation decreases."

    (W. E. Vine: His Life And Ministry, First Edition 1951, Oliphants LTD, London)

    **********************************

    Whatta ya all think?

  • minimus
    minimus

    Well, the Society uses anyone that will support their ideas. They will on one hand, condemn a Bible version and in a different Wt. use that same version of the Bible that "Christendom" put out. Scientists are evolution loving heretics but if they support a Watchtower idea, they will be quoted forever......Vine sounded like a man who knew his stuff.

  • garybuss
    garybuss



    Vine was a pastor and wrote the dictionary the Watch Tower uses to prove hell is the grave and to prove the cross means stake. Lots more. A simple search on the WT CD will net results on Vine. I doubt the Watch Tower bothered to find out that Vine had meetings to expose the Witnesses as a heresy before they quoted from him so liberally. The man who wrote the books Witnesses use to support the Witness doctrine, did not support one of the Witness doctrines they rely on him for support.

    Think there might be a point in all that?



  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Hi Gary,

    An interesting quote, thank you.

    In many ways W.E.Vine seems to have bought a theological respect among Biblical scholars with his 'Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words' and a similar work of Old Testament Words. They are generally, very good quality material.

    It is hardly suprising though that the WTS quote his work when defending their understanding of the Greek 'parousia' as a presence rather than the now conventionally understood Koine Greek understanding of an 'arrival' of a King or conquering army, as he is one of the very few scholars who interpret this word in such a way. It must be remembered that Vine died decades ago and was not able to avail of the more complete research conducted on the parousia since.

    Vine was closely associated if I remember correctly with the Adventist Bretheren groups ( Plymouth Bretheren? ), not a hundred miles distant in their Biblical hopes than the WTS - hence the attractive idea of an 'invisible presence' of an enthroned Christ in heaven. In fact Carl Jonsson ( you may recall that he is the 'apostate' who has interestingly no academic credentials but manages to pip all the 'Scholars' to the post... ) uncovered some interesting information that clearly shows that Vine actually interpreted the Revelation's 'Wild Beast' as the League Of Nations, long before Rutherford's angel dictated it to him! It seems that Rutherford or Franz actually lifted this intepretation from Vine and this is certainly not an exclusive theological plagiarism that the WTS have made from his work. His work 'The First and The Last' seems to have inspired some of the WTS 'end times' interpretation.

    His disdain at the WTS may have been competetitive in nature, no doubt fueled by his fanatical Trinitarian stance and his conviction that his understanding of Scripture was closer to God than theirs.

    Best regards - HS

  • garybuss
    garybuss



    Thanks, HS, My research on Vine was limited to his Biography, his dictionary and his personal papers reproduced in the Biography. He lived and worked in England and was very orthodox in his beliefs as far as I can see. What was your source for seeing Vine connected with the Adventist Brethren?

    I thought the contradictions were interesting in that if Vine had written what the Tower Publishing Corporation says he wrote with the understanding they imply he had, then he would have believed as they believe. There is proof substantial that he didn't belive anything close to the beliefs of the Jehovah's Witnesses and it seems clear to me the Tower Publishing INC is misrepresenting Vine's work.

    Or what?



  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    Yes I know many elders who use Vine from the platform also

  • MacHislopp
    MacHislopp

    Hello Garybuss,

    thanks for the excellent piece of research...

    very fascinating and interesting.

    I do like your comment:

    "...the contradictions were interesting in that if Vine

    had written what the Tower Publishing Corporation

    says he wrote with the understanding they imply he

    had, then he would have believed as they believe. There

    is proof substantial that he didn't belive anything close to

    the beliefs of the Jehovah's Witnesses ..."

    Sharp observation...!

    HS, thanks a lot for your addition to the research.

    Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    Hi J. C. I did the research on Vine at the time I was researching the books the Tower Publishing Corporation used to prove their generation doctrine change in 1995. Here is a copy of that article.

    New Light

    from Old Books and Dead Opposers

    by Gary Busselman

    In support of their recent Biblical interpretation change concerning "this generation" (Matt. 24:34), the Governing Body (hereafter GB) of Jehovah's Witnesses submitted four documents. (Watchtower, 11/1/95, p. 12)

    Those were:

    1. Walter Bauer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament.

    2. W.E. Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words.

    3. J.H. Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament.

    4. The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (1964), edited by Gerhard Kittle.

    After reading the November 1, 1995 Watchtower, my friend, Steven A. Hickey, pastor of Harvest Covenant Church in Sioux Falls, SD (also a Biblical scholar and theologian) asked me, "How do they get 'new light' from a guy who's been dead for a hundred years?" In my research that he inspired, I found that the GB often relies on "worldly wisdom" from old books and dead opposers, who were educated by, and members of "apostate Christendom." (Sorry folks, Watchtower language, not mine.) Here are some additional facts regarding these sources.

    1. Walter Bauer (1877-1960), German lexicographer. Taught at Gottingen from 1916 to 1945. (Wycliffe Biographical Dictionary of the Church, 1982, Moody Press, Chicago.)

    2. William Edwy Vine (1873-1949), vocal OPPOSER of Jehovah's Witnesses, called their teachings of conditional salvation, the denials of the Deity of Christ, and the Trinity heresies. [Vine was appealed to by the Watchtower 52 times in their encyclopedic Insight on the Scriptures alone.] Greek scholar, educator, editor, pastor and author, educated at University College of Wales; BA & MA in "Ancient Classics" from University of London, pastor at Manvers Hall Church in Bath for 40 years. Celebrated Christmas, believed in Hell and that Christ is God, that He died on a CROSS, it is proper to address Him in prayer, and that all believers partake in the Lord's Supper.

    Vine denied the concept of an early Christian "organization," and a "selective" resurrection. He wrote two volumes on the "End Times" and the parousia. Vine taught that parousia should not be translated at all and that it (parousia) will start with the rapture of the Church, (when believers meet Christ in the air) and it will end with the manifestation of Christ in glory. (Publisher's Forward of Vine's Expository, 1981 ed. and W.E. Vine, His Life and Ministry, Oliphants LTD, London, 1951)

    3. Joseph Henry Thayer (1828 -1901), New Testament lexicographer, born in Boston, MA, College at Harvard and seminary at Andover. Ordained a pastor in the Congregational Church in 1859. Professor of sacred literature at Andover Theological Seminary (1864-1882). Lecturer at Harvard Divinity School (1883-1901). Instrumental in founding the American School of Oriental Research in Jerusalem. (Wycliffe Biographical Dictionary of the Church, 1982, Moody Press, Chicago.)

    4. Gerhard Kittle (1888-1948), German biblical scholar, born in Breslau, Germany. Instructor at Kiel (1913) and Leipzig (1917), professor of New Testament at Greifswalg (1921-1926) (ibid. p. 229)

    Similarly, the Watchtower publication Insight On The Scriptures, vol. 1, p. 440 applies for credibility citing the following sources of "worldly wisdom":

    1. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, James Strong (1822-1894), Methodist biblical scholar and educator. A member of the Anglo-American Bible Revision Committee. (Wycliffe Biographical Dictionary of the Church, 1982, Moody Press, Chicago, p. 385)

    2. Edward Robinson's Greek and English Lexicon, Edward Robinson (1794-1863), American biblical scholar, studied at Hamilton College and learned Greek at Andover Theological Seminary. Did much research and theological writing. (Who Was Who in Church History, Moody Press, Chicago, 1962.)

    What do these Watchtower sources all have in common?

    a. They are all dead. (Long-time dead men don't usually write, call or show up on videos.)

    b. They were all college educated (unlike most Witnesses I know). And they read Greek and Hebrew (unlike all Witnesses I know).

    c. None were Jehovah's Witnesses. All were students of, and/or members of "Christendom."

    d. All were writers of what the Watchtower calls "wisdom of the world."


    http://www.freeminds.org/history/busselmn.htm
  • badboy
    badboy

    They often quote his book in support of John 1;1

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    I used to use it from the platform, too. It was one of the things sited as "early apostate tendancies", after I DA'ed - LOL

    I used it in regards to the "new heavens and the new earth", amongst other things. It's surprising where a little (dangerous) knowledge can get you.

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