What is "Faith"?

by LittleToe 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Frannie Banannie
    Frannie Banannie
    "....faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." KJV
    "Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld." NWT
    ".........faith, is the firm foundation under everything. It's our handle............" The Message

    LT, to me, it's kinda like a mother who's never demonstrative in showing love to her children where kissin' an' hugs and "I love you's" are concerned....and yet....they have faith that she DOES love them by the care she takes in preparing their meals, caring for their clothing, cleaning their rooms, and stroking their fevered brow in times of illness, her words of encouragement in times of trouble and always keeping her promises to them.

    Frannie B

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Narkissos:
    So which one would you ascribe to

    Frannie:
    Nice analogy.

    Bradley:
    I don't tend to base my belief system around Tom Sawyer, but whatever turns you on

    JamesThomas:
    I've been of that persuasion for over two years, and it certainly seem to be the fast-track.

  • Double Edge
    Double Edge

    Luigi Franco and Christopher Columbus both believed that the world was round and that you could circumnavigate it. Chris got the financing, hired a crew and set sail.... that's FAITH.

    Luigi Franco never took a step beyond his belief and is lost to history.

    FAITH is unwavering belief backed up by action.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    DoubleEdge:
    Is it though?

    They both believed yet, whilst only one put that faith to the test, they were both right.

    I would, however, concur that action is the usual spontaneous reaction to a living faith.

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Hey double, i have faith that we are all 'god', even g w bush. How do i follow that up w action?

    SS

  • gaiagirl
    gaiagirl

    As I see it, "faith" is something which is accepted as being true, without objective and repeatable evidence. So if someone says "the Bible is the inspired Word of God", and I accept this as being true without any evidence to support this belief, then I am demonstrating faith in their statement.

    To elevate this statement from an article of "faith" to confirmed fact, I might choose to test the Bible for accuracy by comparing claims contained within to observed reality;

    Does the geologic record really indicate that, within the last 5000 years, all the land on the planet was covered by water?

    Do fossils preserved actually indicate that flying creatures existed before land animals?

    Did plant life exist before the existence of the Sun and Moon?

    I might also check the Bible for consistency within its own pages. Does it contradict itself? (were humans created before or after the creation of green vegetation?)

    Does the God described deal consistently with people?

    Does what is acceptable before God change over time?

    Are his judgements in accord with the severity of the offences? (death penalty for collecting firewood?)

    Does the God described sound like a reasonable god? (did he really command execution of women, children, and babies, as well as the elderly, in the conquest of Canaan?)

    Thinking about questions of this sort demonstrates pretty clearly why so many churches exhort their members to demonstrate "faith", i.e. just believe what we tell you, rather than thinking about it too much. Faith is another word for "opinion".

    Reasoning can lead to different beliefs, not based on "faith", but on observed reality. Pretty much everyone agrees that sufficient evidence has demonstrated convincingly that Earth is spherical, despite scriptural verses referring to "four corners", and to mountains sufficiently high that all kingdoms could be viewed from their summit, and to more than 1000 years of official Christian dogma that the surface of the planet was flat.

    Reasoning also led to accepting that Earth is NOT the center of the universe, and that the Sun does NOT revolve around the Earth. For centuries, "faith" required Christians to believe otherwise, despite evidence which had been available since the time of the ancient Greeks. Christians simply chose to ignore such evidence, and to burn libraries where such evidence might be viewed by the undecided, as well as burning anyone who might dare to disagree with their "revealed knowledge".

    In sum, "faith" is a tool used by religious leaders to lead those who don't possess the ability to reason or think for themselves. They simply accept what they are told, nodding their heads in unison as they look up the "confirmatory" verses in their edited texts.

  • gumby
    gumby

    Gaiagirl,

    Very well put!

    Questioning things about the bible is tabboo to not only dubs.....but to many christians. The easy answer is "god doesn't think like we do", "God see's the big picture", "someday we will understand what we do not now understand". Baloney!

    How the god of the bible can expect a person to have faith in a book with so many inconsistancies is ridiculous. The best thing we can live by is common sense, reason, and logic.

    Gumby

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    GaiaGirl:

    Reasoning can lead to different beliefs, not based on "faith", but on observed reality.

    But then it would cease to be faith, so I suspect that what you are describing cannot truly be faith, either.

    Gumby:

    How the god of the bible can expect a person to have faith in a book...

    And there's the rub - is that really what He asks us to have "Faith" in? My understanding was that He asks you to have "Faith" in Him.
    I'd agree that faith needs an "object", though.

    So what is faith?
    (in best "Pilate"-type voice)

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas

    I'd agree that faith needs an "object", though.

    Here, is why "faith" can hide the Truth from us. The act of "faith" creates an "object", some-thing to have faith in. Making Truth/God objective separates us from It.....and this is the problem to begin with: we feel separate from God/Truth, thus we seek for union and wholeness. Do you see how faith supports separation, rather than dissolve it? Do we need or have "faith" that we exist? Hell no! Existence is unquestionable, undeniable and unequivocally real and actual. To argue it, is to prove it. There is no need for faith in what is present and real, in what is lived. Should not this be our goal for Truth? to realize and live it here and now unquestionably and without a need for faith? Perhaps one definition of "faith" is: an energy of movement, a calling or desire towards a goal not yet realized. However, as I recall, the Buddha said "When you cross the river, you abandon the boat". In my view we have -- especially in Western Society -- put way too much emphasis on faith; so much so we have lost sight of the goal. We have become stagnant and complacent with faith alone. Then again, since our religions have reduced God down to a thing, person or entity, then God is always separate from us, and faith -- is as good as it gets. What a pity. Life/Existence is intimately what we are. Is not God also Life? Why must we continue to shrink God down to a scrap or thing within the Universe. Why not see the universe as simply moving within God. Bring Truth closer...always closer. Bring attention within, rather than without. Your vision will become clear
    only when you look into your heart ...
    Who looks outside, dreams.
    Who looks inside, awakens.
    ~ Carl Jung j

  • Blueblades
    Blueblades

    Hi Little Toe! I lean toward the "Doubting Thomas"syndrome.Where was his faith?Afterall,he lived with Jesus,witnessed the miracles,raising persons from the dead etc.But he refused to exercise faith that Jesus came back from the dead,even after the others told him that they seen the risen Jesus.

    Did Jesus refuse to accept him anymore because of this lack of faith,this "Doubting Thomas"displayed.No! Jesus gave him evidence of his rising from the dead.Just as he did for 40 days to many others.

    We today,have not had the experience of being with Jesus and having the evidence before us of all that he did.So,not to have faith is understandable,Jesus understood that,and acted accordingly to different individuals back then.

    As far as I can discern for myself,he does not appear to anyone anymore since the first century ce.

    So, for me I remain a "Doubting Thomas" and wait for more proof,it may never come in my life - time , 60yrs.old now.But,I feel in the very least,Jesus will eventually accord all of us what he has done for those in the first century,give us proof,then we can say as Thomas,"My Lord and My God!"

    Until then,now,in the near future,or after death,I await and hope to be treated as "Doubting Thomas" ( btw.no relationship to the James Thomas who post's here. Who appears to have no doubts.

    )Blueblades

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