The three wise men and their gifts! (page 2)

dh

my memory is a little sketchy but here's another random slightly off topic thought... were the number of wise men mentioned or just the number of gifts?

anyway, just a thought.

dh'

blondie

dhamah, you're on the right track. The number of the wise men is not mentioned only the number of gifts, 3, and it is inferred that they were 3 wise men based on the number of gifts.

Matthew 2 (King James Version) 10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.
11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

http://www.snopes.com/holidays/christmas/3wisemen.asp

http://www.infoplease.com/askeds/12-9-98askeds.html

http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/w/wisem1ene1.asp

If you put the timeline for the arrival of the astrologers/wise men to some time after Jesus birth, then they might be considered gifts to acknowledge Jesus station as a future king comparing it to the gifts that Solomon received from visitors The WTS would point out that the Jewish shepherds brought no gifts and were not directed to do so by the angels, and that the wise men were not true followers of Jehovah.

The thing I have always found interesting is that the WTS sucks the joy out of everything. Even the one holy day, Nisan 14, is such a dry affair that there is no joy is recognizing the fact that Jesus' blood had been poured out and the covenant between God and humans sealed. That once again humans could have a close, father to child relationship with him without the sins of others blocking the way. They have to take that joy away from 6,000,000 plus (yet even 6,000,000,000 plus). They have to make it a meaningless pass of wine that no one drinks and bread that no one eats, opening in prayer to God through Jesus who is not their mediator and not their brother. Jesus instead becomes their father, they are children of the Bride and Christ, not children of God.

I don't know how they do it in you area, but the servers have to be MS or elders. They run around with a napkin over their arm. Not that anyone every blots their lips with it, because no one is drinking. The glasses must be crystal as must the plates. A flower arrangement must be on the table on the platform that is carefully selected the the elder's wife selected that year (usually the PO's). Unlike any other meetings, the attendants are all told to approach everyone and say hi, asking if they are new and chat them up and find them a seat. You might fall over because an elder will actually talk to you more than hi how are ya. Gotta look good to the visitors. And then there is the elder/ms/speaker pass the wine/bread dance. First all MS/elders serving/speaking/praying sit in the front row at the right. When the servers are done all go back and sit but one. He passes it down the row and then the last one gets up and passes it to the speaker who puts it back on the table (alternatives are possible).

Blondie

peacefulpete

The Wt is correect in saying that the Gold Frankincense and myrrh were gifts often gien to Kings. They ignore the reasons why. Solar deity worship was a staple of most ancient cultures. To honor a King or Philosopher like Socrates and Pythagorus legends about the birth of these men were later created in the solar motif. Gold, because of it's color, was sacred metal of the sun gods. Frankincense and myrrh (yellow-orangey red, Columbia Encyclopedia 6th) were gums offered as sacrifice in sun worship ceremonies. The birth narrative was not a part of the earliest Jesus traditions. Mark and the Gospel of Thomas for instance do not speak of it. The narrative seems to be written in competition with other savior stories that had supernatural conceptions, astronomical signs and angelic messengers. The inclusion of the Magi from the east (Babylon likely) and the astrological/solar elements seems to be an attempt by the author to honor Jesus in the same way as his predecessors had done there deified men.

A Paduan

There is no mention of the magi arriving on the night of jesus birth . The account mentions them going to a house not a manger

the house is you

shut the door when you pray

The maid (not married) who kept the door said to Peter, "Are not you also ..............

the elder brother was beside himself and would not 'enter the house'

there are catholics that identify with something about the magi

entering the house they found Jesus with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him

detective

Who arrived first- the magi or the shepherds? Or, perhaps they arrived at the same time. Or, perhaps one of our gospel writing friends had it confused and only one group of visitors arrived- maybe magi, maybe shepherds (after all, they didn't seem to meet up in transit).

just some thoughts.

little witch

I think the magi came later. They spoke to Herod and the questions about the Messiah caused the slaghter of the innocents. Why would Herod have ordered the killing of all Jewish boys under 2 if it was a newborn?

Also, Herod was well versed in Jewish custom and news. Why didn't he already know about this development? So I think most definatly the magi were of a different theology. Oddly, Herod believed them and showed some respect for other religions.I mean, according to the bible, he acted on the news he received from foreigners (non-Jewish)

The three wise men and their gifts!

dh

blondie

peacefulpete

A Paduan

detective

little witch

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