The End of this world

by U.2.K. Tha Greate$t 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • U.2.K. Tha Greate$t
    U.2.K. Tha Greate$t

    Alright alot of people say that the jehovah witness was going on preaching in the early 1900's about how the end was coming before soon and those who was born or living in the year 1918 would still be alive to see christ second coming(or coming and not be seen). I would'nt know nothing about that, cause i was'nt even born till 1981. But from my study's from the witness, they told me that sort of preaching was never going on.

    Anyway the point to this post is, "we all know that nobody knows when the end of "this world" will come, the messiah made this clear and said only "God knows". But:

    Im just wondering, Is anybody here ready for armageddon? You know are you listening to the bible, just sitting here thinking how the end is gonna be , scares me, but at the same time, im can not wait till it comes, im ready and laughing at the same time. Time for GOod times .

  • PopeOfEruke
    PopeOfEruke

    Are you ready??? The Pope

  • Satanus
    Satanus
    I would'nt know nothing about that, cause i was'nt even born till 1981.

    Tell a child anything from the time it was born and it will believe. Better do your research, son.

    SS

  • seattleniceguy
    seattleniceguy

    U2K,

    But from my study's from the witness, they told me that sort of preaching was never going on.

    If they say that to you, then they are lying or they are misinformed. I would strongly encourage you to examine the evidence that they have been saying the end of the world is coming since 1879, and have specifically named many dates for it. Even in 1975, they were quite clear that we should do all we can "in the few remaining months" before Armageddon.

    A good place to get a less biased history would be Ray Franz' book, Crisis of Conscience. Of course, if you decide to read this, you might want to do it quietly, since your Bible study conductor will probably freak out if s/he learns that you're reading it.

    Hope that helps!

    SNG

  • seesthesky
    seesthesky

    aghhhhhhh

  • avishai
    avishai
    or living in the year 1918 would still be alive to see christ second coming(or coming and not be seen). I would'nt know nothing about that, cause i was'nt even born till 1981. But from my study's from the witness, they told me that sort of preaching was never going on.

    Geez, all you have to do is look in the front cover of any wt or awake from pre 1995

    Here's just a few examples.

    The Millennium of peace and blessing would be introduced by forty years of trouble, beginning slightly in 1874 and increasing until social chaos should prevail in 1914?

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** The Watchtower Reprints, January 15, 1892, p.1355 ***

    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    The date of the close of that ?battle? is definitely marked in Scripture as October, 1914. It is already in progress, its beginning dating from October, 1874.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** The Watchtower Reprints, July 15, 1894, p. 1672 ***

    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    We see no reason for changing the figures ? nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God?s dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** The Watchtower Reprints, September 15, 1901, p. 2876 ***

    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    The culmination of the trouble in October, 1914, is clearly marked in the Scriptures; and we are bound therefore to expect a beginning of that severe trouble not later than 1910; ? with severe spasms between now and then.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** The Watchtower Reprints, August 15, 1904, p.3415 ***

    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    Question. ? If the ?Times of the Gentiles? can be changed as suggested in the July Tower, so that the anarchy will follow 1914 A.D., instead of preceding it, might not similar changes be made in respect to all the various lines of prophetic time proof set forth in Millennial Dawn, Vols. II and III?

    Answer. ? You are entirely in error. Not a figure, not a date, not a prophecy is in any sense or degree affected by the article to which you refer. Indeed the harmony and unity of the whole is the more fully demonstrated? The harmony of the prophetic periods of the correctness of out Bible chronology. They fit together like the cog-wheels of a perfect machine. To change the chronology even one year would destroy all this harmony, ? so accurately are the various proofs drawn together in the parallels between the Jewish and Gospel ages.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** The Watchtower Reprints, June 15, 1905, p. 3576 ***

    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM] [This is a summary, not a quote]

    [Charts showing 1914 date as armageddon.]

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** The Divine Plan of the Ages, 1905, end notes ***

    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM] Scan available!

    THINGS YOU OUGHT TO KNOW AS CHRISTIAN BIBLE STUDENTS

    DO YOU KNOW THAT

    ? We are now living in "the Time of the End" of this Gospel age?

    ? Our epoch is "the Day of God's Preparation" for the Millennial age?

    ? The "Days of Waiting" are ended and the "Cleansing of the Sanctuary" ? the Church, ? the separating of its Wheat and Tares, is now in progress?

    ? This is the reason for the beginning of the Return of Divine Favor to Fleshly Israel ? blinded for centuries ? to permit the gathering of an elect class from among the Gentiles?

    ? This favor is gradually taking shape and known as Zionism?

    ? Immanuel's Kingdom is now in process of establishment?

    ? The Great Pyramid in Egypt is a Witness to all these event of the ages and of our day ? testifying in symbols?

    ? The Pyramid's downward passage under "A Draconis" symbolizes the course of Sin? Its First Ascending Passage symbolizes the Jewish age? Its grand Gallery symbolized the Gospel age? Its Upper Step symbolized the approaching period of tribulation and anarchy, "Judgments," upon Christendom? Its King's Chamber the Divine Nature, etc., of the Overcoming Church ? the Christ, Head and Body? Its Ante-Chamber the Correction in Righteousness of the "Great Company" etc.? Its Queen's Chamber those of Israel and the world who attain Restitution?

    All these interesting topics with ten Pyramid illustrations can be had in "Thy Kingdom Come" [Studies in the Scriptures vol III]

    [Emphasis Added]

    ** The Time Is at Hand (SS-2), 1907 ed., p. 76-77 ***

    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    In this chapter we will present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the Gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** The Time Is at Hand (SS-2), 1907 ed., pp. 77-78 ***

    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    Firstly, That at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, "Thy Kingdom come," will obtain full, universal control, and that it will then be "set up," or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions. Secondly, It will prove that he whose right it is thus to take the domination will then be present as earth?s new Ruler... Thirdly, It will prove that some time before the end of A.D. 1914 the last member of the divinely recognized Church of Christ, the "royal priesthood," "the body of Christ," will be glorified with the Head... Fourthly, It will prove that from that time forward Jerusalem shall no longer be trodden down by the Gentiles... Fifthly, it will prove that by that date, or sooner, Israel?s blindness will begin to be turned away ... Sixthly, It will prove that the great "time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation," will reach its culmination in a world-wide reign of anarchy... Seventhly, It will prove that before that date God?s Kingdom, organized in power, will be in the earth and then smite and crush the Gentile image (Dan. 2:34) - and fully consume the power of these kings.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** The Time Is at Hand (SS-2), 1907 ed., p. 101 ***

    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    The ?battle of the great day of God Almighty? (Rev. 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth?s present rulership, is already commenced.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** The Watchtower Reprints, January 1, 1914, p. 5373 ***

    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    As already pointed out, we are by no means confident that this year, 1914, will witness as radical and swift changes of dispensation as we have expected.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** The Watchtower Reprints, September 1, 1914, p. 5527 ***

    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    While it is possible that Armageddon may begin next Spring, yet it is purely speculation to attempt to say just when.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** The Watchtower Reprints, November 1, 1914, p.5565 ***

    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    Studying God?s Word, we have measured the 2520 years, the seven symbolic times, from that year 606 B.C. and have found that it reached down to October, 1914, as nearly as we were able to reckon. We did not say positively that this would be the year.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** Light, 1930 ed. p., 194 ***

    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    All of the Lord?s people looked forward to 1914 with joyful expectation. When that time came and passed there was much disappointment, chagrin, and mourning, and the Lord?s people were greatly in reproach. They were ridiculed by the clergy and their allies in particular, and pointed to with scorn, because they had said so much about 1914, and what would come to pass, and their ?prophecies? had not been fulfilled.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** Vindication I, 1931 ed., p. 338-339 ***

    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah?s faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1914, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time. Later the faithful learned that these dates were definitely fixed in the Scriptures; and they also learned to quit fixing dates for the future and predicting what would come to pass on a certain date.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** Man's Salvation Out Of World Distress At Hand (book) 1975 p.98 ch.6 The Promise of a Spiritual Paradise ***

    20 However, suddenly, there came an end to World War I. It did not lead on, as Bible students expected, into world revolution and anarchy or the battle of Armageddon. And the sincere worshipers of Jehovah, who were in the new covenant with him through his Mediator Jesus Christ, found themselves still in the flesh on the earth. But still in captivity to Babylon the Great and her political, military, judicial paramours!

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** Man's Salvation Out Of World Distress At Hand (book) 1975 pp.190-191 ch.11 No Harming nor Ruining in the Spiritual Paradise ***

    20 Therefore the time for the fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy concerning the transformation of the disposition of animal life dates from the postwar year 1919 C.E. onward. This marked the beginning of a period of education in the written Word of God from the standpoint that Bible prophecy is best understood after it has been fulfilled. So there needed to be a correction of our previous views, and the surviving remnant of spiritual Israel needed to be readjusted to the postwar realities and opportunities. The preaching of "this good news of the kingdom" now was to be, not of a coming heavenly government, but of God's Messianic kingdom now established in the heavens since the end of the "appointed times of the [Gentile] nations" in the autumn of 1914. The liberated remnant were henceforth to be witnesses of the Lord God, the One who had taken his great power to reign in 1914 by means of the kingdom of his Christ. (Matthew 24:14; Luke 21:24; Revelation 11:15-17) This revised program of Bible education had a profound effect on the remnant. It oriented their work in the right direction.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** Jehovah's Witnesses, Proclaimers of God's Kingdom (book), 1993 pp.635-6 ch28 Testing and Sifting From Within ***

    1914?Expectations and Reality

    In 1876, C. T. Russell wrote the first of many articles in which he pointed to the year 1914 as the end of the Gentile Times referred to by Jesus Christ. (Luke 21:24, KJ) In the second volume of Millennial Dawn, published in 1889, Brother Russell set out in a reasoned manner details that would enable readers to see the Scriptural basis for what was said and to check it for themselves. Over a period of nearly four decades leading up to 1914, the Bible Students distributed millions of copies of publications focusing attention on the end of the Gentile Times. A few other religious papers took note of the Bible chronology that pointed to the year 1914, but what group other than the Bible Students gave it ongoing international publicity and lived in a manner that showed that they believed that the Gentile Times would end in that year?

    As 1914 neared, expectations heightened. What would it mean? In The Bible Students Monthly (Volume VI, No. 1, published early in 1914), Brother Russell wrote: "If we have the correct date and chronology, Gentile Times will end this year-1914. What of it? We do not surely know. Our expectation is that the active rule of Messiah will begin about the time of the ending of the lease of power to the Gentiles. Our expectation, true or false, is that there will be wonderful manifestations of Divine judgments against all unrighteousness, and that this will mean the breaking up of many institutions of the present time, if not all." He emphasized that he did not expect the "end of the world" in 1914 and that the earth abides forever, but that the present order of things, of which Satan is ruler, is to pass away.

    In its issue of October 15, 1913, The Watch Tower had stated: "According to the best chronological reckoning of which we are capable, it is approximately that time-whether it be October, 1914, or later. Without dogmatizing, we are looking for certain events: (1) The termination of the Gentile Times-Gentile supremacy in the world-and (2) For the inauguration of Messiah's Kingdom in the world."

    How would this come about? It seemed reasonable to the Bible Students then that it would include the glorification of any still on earth who had been chosen by God to share in the heavenly Kingdom with Christ. But how did they feel when that did not occur in 1914? The Watch Tower of April 15, 1916, stated: "We believe that the dates have proven to be quite right. We believe that Gentile Times have ended." However, it candidly added: "The Lord did not say that the Church would all be glorified by 1914. We merely inferred it and, evidently, erred."

    In this they were somewhat like Jesus' apostles. The apostles knew and thought they believed the prophecies concerning God's Kingdom. But at various times they had wrong expectations as to how and when these would be fulfilled. This led to disappointment on the part of some.-Luke 19:11; 24:19-24; Acts 1:6.

    When October 1914 passed without the expected change to heavenly life, Brother Russell knew that there would be serious searchings of heart. In The Watch Tower of November 1, 1914, he wrote: "Let us remember that we are in a testing season. The Apostles had a similar one during the interim between our Lord's death and Pentecost. After our Lord's resurrection, He appeared to His disciples a few times, and then they did not see Him for many days. Then they became discouraged and said, 'There is no use waiting'; 'I go fishing,' said one. Two others said, 'We will go with thee.' They were about to go into the fishing business and leave the work of fishing for men. This was a testing time for the disciples. So also there is one now. If there is any reason that would lead any to let go of the Lord and His Truth and to cease sacrificing for the Lord's Cause, then it is not merely the love of God in the heart which has prompted interest in the Lord, but something else; probably a hoping that the time was short; the consecration was only for a certain time."

    That evidently was the case with some. Their thoughts and desires had been fixed primarily on the prospect of being changed to heavenly life. When this did not occur at the anticipated time, they closed their minds to the significance of the amazing things that did take place in 1914. They lost sight of all the precious truths that they had learned from God's Word, and they began to ridicule the people who had helped them to learn these.

    Humbly, the Bible Students examined the Scriptures again, to let God's Word readjust their outlook. Their conviction that the Gentile Times had ended in 1914 did not change. Gradually they came to see more clearly how the Messianic Kingdom had begun-that it was established in heaven when Jehovah bestowed authority on Jesus Christ, his Son; also, that this did not have to wait until Jesus' joint heirs were raised to heavenly life but that they would be glorified with him later. In addition, they came to see that the spreading of the influence of the Kingdom did not require that first the faithful prophets of old be resurrected, but that the King would use loyal Christians now living as his representatives to set before people of all nations the opportunity to live forever as earthly subjects of the Kingdom.

    As this grand picture opened before their eyes, further testing and sifting resulted. But those who truly loved Jehovah and took delight in serving him were very grateful for the privileges of service that opened up to them.-Rev. 3:7, 8.

    [Emphasis Added]

    The parallel, therefore, would establish definitely that the harvest would close forty years thereafter; to wit, in the spring of A.D. 1918. If this be true, and the evidence is very conclusive that it is true, then we have only a few months in which to labor before the great night settles down when no man can work.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** The Finished Mystery (SS-7), 1917 ed., p. 62 ***

    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    The data presented in comments on Rev. 2:1 prove that the conquest of Judea was not completed until the day of the Passover, A.D. 73, and in the light of the foregoing Scriptures, prove that the Spring of 1918 will bring upon Christendom a spasm of anguish greater even than that experienced in the Fall of 1914. Reexamine the table of the Parallel Dispensations in STUDIES IN THE SCRIPTURES, Vol. 2, pages 246 and 247; change the 37 to 40, 70 to 73, and 1914 to 1918, and we believe it is correct and will be fulfilled ?with great power and glory.? (Mark 13:26)

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** The Finished Mystery (SS-7), 1917 ed., p. 128 ***

    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    It seems conclusive that the hour of Nominal Zion?s travail is fixed for the Passover of 1918. (See Rev. 3:14.) That will be 7 years prior to 1925. At that time there is every reason to believe the fallen angels will invade the minds of many of the Nominal Church people, driving them to exceedingly unwise conduct and leading to their destruction at the hands of the enraged masses, who will later be dragged to the same fate.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** The Finished Mystery (SS-7), 1917 ed., p. 129 ***

    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    Brother Russell put the question to three prominent brethren, all of whom replied that they did not know, but were willing to wait and see. When he called upon me I said, ?Since the year 73 A.D. saw the complete overthrow of nominal Natural Israel in Palestine, so in the parallel year 1918, I infer we should look for the complete overthrow of nominal Spiritual Israel; i.e., the fall of Babylon.? (Rev.18.) Brother Russell replied; ?Exactly. That is exactly the inference to draw.? The conclusion of the Church?s career comes first. (Rev. 3:14.)

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** The Finished Mystery (SS-7), 1917 ed., p. 398-399 ***

    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    The people who are the strength of Christendom shall be cut off in the brief but terribly eventful period beginning in 1918 A.D. A third part are 'burned with fire in the midst of the city.' Fire symbolizes destruction. One large part of the adherents of ecclesiasticism will die from pestilence and famine. (Deut. 32:24.) ?After 1918 the people supporting churchianity will cease to be its supporters, be destroyed as adherents, by the spiritual pestilence of errors abroad, and by the famine of the Word of God among them. The Sword of the Spirit (Eph. 6:17), which is the Word of God, will be wielded in the hands of 'Present Truth' believers in such a manner as to cause conscientious supporters of ecclesiasticism to cease to be supporters.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** The Finished Mystery (SS-7), 1917 ed., p. 404 ***

    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    The trouble is due to the dawning of the Day of Christ, the Millennium. It is the Day of Vengeance, which began in the world war of 1914 and which will break like a furious morning storm in 1918. - Lam. 4:18.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** The Finished Mystery (SS-7), 1917 ed., p. 485 ***

    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    Also, in the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by millions, it shall be that any that escape shall come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the meaning of the downfall of ?Christianity.?

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** The Watchtower Reprints, January 1, 1918, p.6191 ***

    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    What will the year of 1918 bring forth? This question is upon the lips of every class of men. The world looks and hopes for those things which constitute its highest ideals--peace, plenty, health and happiness. The Christian looks for the year to bring the full consummation of the church?s hopes.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** The Watchtower Reprints, May 1, 1918, p. 6243 ***

    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    That the harvest began in 1878, there is ample and convincing proof. The end of the harvest is due in the spring of 1918.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** The Watchtower Reprints, May 1, 1918, p. 6243 ***

    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    The doom of Babylon is sealed and has been announced. God has smitten her with plagues (Revelation 16:20,21); and her destruction will follow shortly.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** Vindication I, 1931 ed., p. 338-339 ***

    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah?s faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1914, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time. Later the faithful learned that these dates were definitely fixed in the Scriptures; and they also learned to quit fixing dates for the future and predicting what would come to pass on a certain date.

    [Emphasis Added]

  • Sentinel
    Sentinel

    This is an interesting post. I had so much fear of Armageddon when I was a JW. I never heard the term before I was age thirteen. From that point on, I went to bed every night in fear that I had somehow done something that the JW god, Jehovah, would punnish me for. (This was even far worse then the hellfire teachings at the local church we used to go to.)

    JW's taught at first that only the evil people would die at the great war. Even when I saw the pictures of the children along with their parents being pitched into the earths crevices, I could not fatham a creator doing such a thing, even if they had done something wrong. The pictures of flesh falling off bodies, etc. was horrid. Later, they changed that to saying that "hopefully, we would be hidden in a crag" and hopefully would escape the wrath of god". What??? Wait a minute. Things changed. Well that is the way the JW teachings were. I was steadfast and a good JW borg. I didn't want to die and the promise was so appealing. Living forever on a paradise earth. But, they kept changing their teachings. As I matured, disillusionment was so unsettlling, that I knew something was amiss Even then, I was Df'd for one event of youth, groveled back due to my insecurities, and still there was no contentment. Too many questions remained unanswered..and I was being judged for simply asking them.

    For a long time, even after I finally DA'd myself, I still thought that Armageddon meant the wrath of god upon the world. Now I feel totally different. I believe Armageddon as just a time when the earth will have breathed it's final breath, and living beings won't be able to exist here. I don't know what will happen to this world of mankind. Other creations have existed here and have not survived the upheaval of change over eons. Everything seems to have a cycle, and earth does too, even solar systems. We are just a part of the universe. I do believe that every living thing is connected to the divine, and whether or not we remember what we've done or where we've lived, we will at some point, return back to the creator.

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas
    I do believe that every living thing is connected to the divine, and whether or not we remember what we've done or where we've lived, we will at some point, return back to the creator.

    Very well said, Karen. Mystically speaking "Armageddon" can be seen as the death of our beliefs that: "I am an entity separate from the infinite Oneness of Divinity". This also entails the death of ideas and beliefs that God is but a thing or anthropomorphic deity separate and apart from our True-being. Few wish to surrender something so deeply cherished, so "Heaven" or the "New World" continually remains a future event adrift within space and time. Armageddon, is within us; as is Heaven; as is God. j

  • SanFranciscoJim
    SanFranciscoJim
    Im just wondering, Is anybody here ready for armageddon?

    I am absolutely ready for Armageddon. I am also quite ready to be destroyed, if necessary. Here are the reasons:

    * I believe that God (if he exists) sees into the heart. Affiliation with any particular denomination will not in any manner save a person from judgement. If Armageddon really does come (which I sincerely doubt), I believe that many people of faith, most particularly Jehovah's Witnesses, will be utterly shocked at whom God chooses to survive.

    * If the JW version of Armageddon were to occur, and I was deemed unworthy of survival, I am prepared to meet my fate, because I would rather be destroyed than suffer the eternal torment of living in a world full of judgemental Jehovah's Witnesses for the rest of eternity. That would be Hell.

  • blondie
    blondie

    I second that Jim.

    Blondie

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