Why don't people believe Facts?

by The Rebel 26 Replies latest jw friends

  • slimboyfat

    Peter Boghossian. That name is a blast from the past. I read a book by him against relativism years ago. It convinced me there are no good arguments against relativism! Let me find it.

    Oh no it was Paul Boghossian. Unusual name, but different guy, apparently.


    Currently I am reading this book to see if it can persuade me on the merits of "facts". I will report back if it does the trick. My interpretation at least.


    Has anyone read it?

  • The Rebel
    The Rebel

    DJS Thanks for the post, which I look forward to reading tonight when I have more time.

    Slimboyfat " There are no facts only interpretations. That's why I suggested to Paul Grundy years ago he should change his site from jwfacts to jwinterpretations."

    The Rebel, Slim is it not a fact that Paul Grundy did not change his site from jwfacts to jwinterpretations?

    Anyway according to the watchtower " The indisputable facts, show that the " time of the end" begang in 1799. ( W.T, March 1 1922) In fact the proof is quite clear and convincing that the second presence of our Lord dates from 1874" ( W.T Feb 15 1927)

    Well in my opinion the " indisputable facts " are that the W.T doesnt know what a fact is. Does anybody here dispute the fact that the W.T society has a history of failed date setting and discarded doctrine?

    If you don't agree that's a " fact" please clarify why?

    The Rebel.

  • stuckinarut2

    "Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored"

    Aldous Huxley.

  • LisaRose
    Confirmation bias, we accept information that confirms our beliefs, reject that which does not, because we have to protect our fragile ego.
  • DJS
    The Rebel,

    Back Story. Experts in these areas suggest that humans have been around in their present form for about 100,000 years. For about 85,000 years our ancestors were hunter/gatherers existing in smallish clans and groups and going where the food was. About 15,000 years ago humans figured out how to plant food and cultivate it. Voila, the farmer was born. Experts suggest the humble farmer was the genesis of modern civilization, as now humans could stay put, grow their food and build communities around them (while still fending off nasty hordes for a long time).

    But let's go back to the first 85,000 years. Researchers suggest that the typical humans busied themselves in four pursuits, commonly called the 4 "Fs": Feeding, Fleeing, Fighting and Procreation (you are welcome Simon). During this period, humans who could achieve these tasks at a high level more often survived to pass along their DNA. Rational thought and intelligence obviously were factors along the way, but when the primary issue is to eat or be eaten, kill or be killed, have your way with your women and keeping them away from other males, or get the hell out of Dodge as quickly as possible, those given to quick and powerful emotional reactions to real or perceived threats were often the fittest. There isn't much place for philosophy, altruism, fair play, over analysis or self actualization when the 4 "Fs" occupy your time.

    So to be fair to our pathetic species, we are who we are for a reason. Think about Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. The bottom support for this pyramid is comprised of security and safety - food, covering, etc. Maslow suggested that humans couldn't reach the higher rungs unless and until the bottom rungs were satisfied. This fits perfectly with how we evolved.

    Consider the Myers Briggs Personality Type Indicator. Upwards of 45% of the planet's population is in the Guardian category. Artisans and Idealists follow. Dead last, with only 7% of the population, are the Rationals. The manner in which we evolved helps to explain and understand this.

    Although Maslow and MB get some criticism, they are very accurate in explaining human tendencies and personalities.

    So to sum it up; we are screwed as a species. It will take generations to begin changing our basic nature through natural selection. Long live nerds and engineers.
  • nicolaou

    People choose to relegate the value of facts in favour of something they are more heavily invested in. That could be a political ideology, nationalism, personal relationships or our old friend faith.

    Shoving factual information in front of people who don't really care about the facts is frustrating for both sides and will have only limited success.

    So how do we help exJWs who are lurking here to appreciate that facts, properly arrived at through the scientific process, are worth their time to investigate?

    Tricky question, but one thing for sure is the need to refute nonsensical, relativistic claptrap every time it appears.

    There are no facts only interpretations.

    This idiocy helps no one Slim'

  • TD

    It's normal to have anchor points in reality. It's what keeps us sane. That's why questions intended to assess the state of a person's mental health invariably start of with, "What is your name?" and "What is today's date?" etc.

    When our anchor points are challenged, the mind rebels against the offending fact.

    The most common example is when a parent is informed that their child has been killed in an accident and the parent refuses to accept that fact at first. They shout, "No! You must be mistaken!" Very, very sad.

    The more successfully a religion can tie itself to what you accept as reality, the more resistant it will be to facts.

    All religions do this to some extent, but apocalyptic sects (Like the JW's) link themselves directly to a survival event.

  • coalize

    "There are no facts only interpretation"

    Happy to know that me writing this sentence is not a fact, only a delirium of my imagination...

  • LoveUniHateExams
    Sometimes, people don't believe facts because some facts don't sit easily with their world view.
  • Phizzy

    I would like to know if there is an easy way to get people to face the facts, rather than just shove them aside. I know I shoved facts aside when I was a JW.

    I am aware of Boghossian's work, but am wondering if there is an easier route. More often than not when we are in a sudden conversation with a JW or similar, we have little time to strike some kind of chord.

Share this