Everything is Up for Grabs! So, who gets to decide?

TerryWalstrom

Everything really is up for grabs.

OUR SENSE of "ABSOLUTES" is always under fire. We are taught to invest all of our belief in the very idea of something being true and absolute and constant.
But--is that illusory?

Examine how this works: Jesus was tortured and murdered by hanging him on a cross. The cross was a vile instrument of that torture. HOWEVER...Christians love wearing a cross around their neck!
The "meaning" has changed!
The Confederate Flag has undergone a similar 180 in the South by becoming a benign symbol of the South itself and its spirit of good ole boy rambunctiousness.

Who gets to decide what is "true"? Who decides who gets to decide?

Scientists? Engineers? Mathematicians? Legislators? Medical professionals? Legal experts?
Let's call those "referees" a kind of "Priesthood."

A PRIESTHOOD of interpreters RULE our lives.
These are the REAL RULERS of the World; the judges, critics, sages, professors, peer reviewers, arbitration committees, Supreme Courts, media opinion makers, propagandists, and Spiritual counselors.

REALITY, in fact, is VARIABLE and it is our "Priesthood" which pretends and insists on making reality a CONSTANT to fit our rules, beliefs, and 'absolutes.'

BUT...but...but...

We have a very powerful weapon to use against the flux, the drift, the erosion of absolutes. It is the word, "NO!"

We can always opt out.

It's called FREEDOM.

JW_Rogue

"Do not put your trust in nobles nor in the sons of earthly men," or especially liberal arts professors.

ttdtt

The Confederate Flag has undergone a similar 180 in the South by becoming a benign symbol of the South itself and its spirit of good ole boy rambunctiousness.

I have to disagree strongly on this one.

From experience - the only people I have ever seen that like the Confederate Flag are - frankly bigots.

TerryWalstrom

I'm pretty old. 70. I should be more excited by bigots than I am.
I see them every place I look, frankly. Maybe I'm just desensitized.
Let me remind myself of what a BIGOT is.
Bigot= a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.

Uh-oh!
That is a Double-Whammy!
If we don't tolerate Confederate flags by people holding a different opinion that makes us bigots.

When I was a JW I surely was a bigot.
As an EX-JW I don't tolerate JW's. I'm still a bigot.

They're everywhere!

I guess I'm being a little bit silly about this.
What I'm trying to emphasize is HOW LITTLE IT MEANS in the real world as to whether we agree or disagree with what somebody THINKS.
What people actually DO is far more serious.

redvip2000

If we don't tolerate Confederate flags by people holding a different opinion that makes us bigots.

But...it's different when you are talking about public places or maintained by the public. In other words, if you live in Italy, and you want to have a statue of Mussolini in your living room, well then....great go ahead. Everybody should respect that.

But what if you want to put it in the local square? Should the rest of your village be fine with it because you think he was a great man? Moreover, should everybody pay taxes to maintain it? I doubt anyone reasonable would agree.

This is where we must draw the line -- the things that are your private business, vs. the thing are the public's business.

Londo111

Now that we are free to make up our own minds, rather than take in bad information, we can be on the right side of history. We can be ahead of our time, rather than holding to regressive mindsets that belong to more unenlightened times.

TerryWalstrom

redvip2000
if you live in Italy, and you want to have a statue of Mussolini in your living room, well then....great go ahead. Everybody should respect that.

But what if you want to put it in the local square? Should the rest of your village be fine with it because you think he was a great man? Moreover, should everybody pay taxes to maintain it? I doubt anyone reasonable would agree.
_________

In Texas, we have a "shrine" called the Alamo.
Do Mexicans think of it the same way non-Hispanic Texans do?
Whose ox was gored by whom?

The Confederate statues being destroyed constitute vandalism under the guise of something else political. Either we are lawful people are we are that "other" kind: anarchist.

I don't think many citizens of Iraq complained when Saddam's statue was toppled spontaneously.
Saddam and Mussolini were two of a kind.
Confederate Generals were surely not in the same category, were they?
_____

Protesters pulled the rope and erupted in cheers as the statue toppled onto the ground. Several people ran up to the mangled statue, kicking it and spitting on it.

The statue, dedicated in 1924, depicts a soldier holding a gun on top of a concrete pillar. The pillar is engraved, "In memory of the boys who wore gray."

oppostate

Whose ox was gored by whom?

Que?

Confederate Generals were surely not in the same category, were they?

Considering they were fighting to maintain the slavery status quo in the South... Yah! I'd say they're pretty guilty of supporting an institution that abused human rights and caused great suffering.

The South's Rebel or Battle flag is pretty much the same as the Nazi swastika flag, IMHO.

Such things belong in museums as reminders of what treating other peoples as subhuman leads to, bloodshed, suffering and war.

Anony Mous

@RedVip: Regardless of whether you agree with someone's past ideologies, a statue can just as much be a reminder of victory as well as a disgrace and reminder of where you came from. When you destroy history and facts, you're NOT destroying ideologies, you're reinforcing them.

The factual history on the Civil War is quite a bit different than what is currently being portrayed. Slavery was just a crutch to continue support for an existing conflict, Lincoln even said that he didn't care whether it would free slaves, the war was necessary to keep the President in power over the Union.

My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that.

Simon

I think what some people are missing in all this, is that regardless of the politics of the time (judging from hindsight is easy), many people died in that war on both sides.

There are decedents of people who fought for the south who might like some commemoration of the people who died. Not everyone who fights in an army is a true believer in the cause - some are even conscripts. Some are misguided but it doesn't take away their courage and bravery and they don't deserve to be erased from history.

We live in a democracy (well, many of us do, I'm not sure about America anymore). If someone wants something changed then they should make a case for it and go through the proper processes.

Only lazy thugs form mobs to take matters into their own hands.

Everything is Up for Grabs! So, who gets to decide?

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