Far fewer references to lesbians

by Doug Mason 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • DesirousOfChange

    Just my personal opinion. No scientific data. I think this is just another example that demonstrates how "out of touch" WTS info is today.

    In our circle of "worldly" friends as well as that of our kids, I see lesbianism, or at least bi-sexual/bi-curiosity much much higher in females than males. It's totally accepted. In fact, it's "cool". Even the young married gals. It is no longer considered taboo.


  • Heaven

    Queen Victoria, who asked "But what do they do in bed ?",

    Well, that's probably a big indication that Queen Victoria never had her clitoris stimulated. What a sad thing.

  • steve2

    Culturally in the "West", male homosexuality is more visible than lesbianism.

    For example, if a woman publically shows affection to another woman, it is construed as normal, whereas a man showing affection to another man immediately evokes homosexual connotations.

    Dress codes also show a disparity.

    If a woman prefers to dress in more "masculine" styles, she will not be seen as lesbian, but as business-minded, but if a man prefers more " feminine" styles of dressing, he will be seen as gay.

    I'm drawing upon stereotypes, true, but the gist is male homosexuality is "constructed" socially as more of a "problem" because it is "easier" for males to be seen deviating from constructed norms for males than it is for females to deviate from norms for females.

    Even straight men who deviate from prescribed dress codes for males are subjected to questions about their sexuality. Ask any decent "metrosexual".

    JW organization's moral codes and literature are far more reflective of and influenced by conservative social construction than the Witnesses would ever care to acknowledge . Hence the more frequent references to male homosexuality than to lesbianism.

    Women's relative invisibility in patriarchal religious organizations is the norm - even in JW organization.

  • Diogenesister
    Actually from my memories as a teenager reading WT literature I felt more guilted because they focused so much on male sexuality/masterbation etc as if I was a freak for being a girl with a sex drive.
  • steve2

    Good point, Diogenesister!

  • blondie

    I have noticed that men are more apt to feel threatened by other male they perceive to be gay. I hard 4 Bethel elders emphatically state that homosexuality is a worse sin than adultery because adultery is natural!

    Women don't seem to be as threatened by lesbians. Men neither, they tend to fantasize enjoying watching 2 women have sex together....not 2 men though.

    Men are more important in the WTS world and I know that there was a big scandal at Bethel in the late 60's and several left because of homosexual charges. and one an few years later. There are few single sisters at Bethel sharing rooms, but quite a few single brothers...evidently a hobed....I was told too in NYC that there was a park nearby where many homosexuals hung out and they would corrupt the new Bethel guys...never say any of that but then a brother told me and he was petrified that someone would make a pass at him.

  • Simon

    Lesbians are simply more socially acceptable in mainstream society. As blondie points out - they are a fantasy for many heterosexuals so appeal to more segments.

    Katy Perry singing "I kissed a girl" was a huge hit, I doubt some dude singing the equivalent "I kissed a boy" would get as much airplay.

    Funny story: when one of our friends was in her mid-to-late teens her brother told their parents she was a lesbian as a joke (she wasn't). They were super supportive and were waiting for her to come out to them in her own time ... but eventually it came out when her mother added "... because you're a lesbian" to something. Oops. LOL

  • JustMe2


    "...as a teenager...I felt more guilted...

    as if I was a freak for being a girl with a sex drive."

    As well you should, Diogenesister, as well you should. A public speaker giving a talk on marriage discussed the need for communicating one's desires in order to have a happy sex life. Apparently only the husbands needed to do the communicating, however, because wives would gain happiness not by focusing on their own desires but by working to fulfill their husbands'.

    This was no old fogey of a Witness; he was probably only in his thirties. I felt sorry for his wife if he believed what he was saying and lived in harmony with it.

    If I remember correctly, a similar point of counsel was made in one of the magazines. How edifying.

  • St George of England
    St George of England

    When discussing masturbation, does it mention both sexes?

    Doug - There have been a couple of articles where girls have been mentioned and one I seem to remember where there was a footnote suggesting that male and female were being refered to in the article, even if it said "he".

    However, this QFR from 1961 seems to suggest that it is OK for a girl to "take care of herself" when she is feeling that way inclined!

    *** w61 12/15 p. 768 Questions From Readers ***

    There are cases where a girl became pregnant as a result of one sex interview with a boy. What a price for a girl, a virgin, to pay for a few minutes of satisfied sex emotions! When persons start in this dangerous and sinful course, they find it hard to overcome future temptations. When a young, unmarried girl falls to the temptation, the price she pays is terrible: shame, sorrow, a ruined reputation, endless troubles, with the danger of being disfellowshiped from a congregation if the girl is a dedicated member. It is high time for girls to understand the make-up of their bodies and its functions, especially with regard to sex. Then if a girl understandingly takes care of herself while the ovum is at large and is causing sex disturbance and cravings within her, she will be able to act like a true lady of irreproachable morals at all times. She will avoid the violating of her virginity and the shame and conscience-stricken state due to this; and wisely she will direct her young life so as to end up in the position of a clean, happy wife and mother of legitimate children, journeying to the new world of righteousness, where there will be no sex problems amid a sex-crazy population.

  • fulltimestudent

    Both in the general community and the JW community, there is more emphasis on male homosexuality than there is on female homosexuality. Why that discrepancy exists is not clear. It could be simply a numerical issue, but in the current situation of lingering community discrimination we are unlikely to know the relative percentages of same sex attracted males and females.

    Within the JW congregations in which I had some knowledge of what was going on, I can only recall one disfellowshipping in which female/female sex was the issue, but quite a few disfellowshippings in which male/male sexual activity was the issue.

    It is, of course, easier for a woman to hide her unexpressed same sex yearnings than it is for a man. A man who is same sex attracted and married to a woman (which I'm guessing is likely to be the situation for most same sex attracted male Jws. ) has a huge problem. He is expected to perform marriage dues with his wife, while not being sexually attracted to her, and somehow provide an explanation for his lack of performance.

    In that situation something is going to give, both in the marriage and in his personal satisfaction with life. That may have something to do with the higher numbers of males who are disfellowshipped, compared to women.

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