[title revised] "Spare The Rod..." in scripture?

by sf 22 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  sf

  You know, the other day I found myself in a 'uh?' moment when I heard something that I never knew and/ or was led to believe in Order to Behave Accordingly. So I did a search (go figure):
  

  [PDF] Scripture and Domestic Violence
  File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
  ... him. (Prov. 13:24) “Spare the rod and spoil the child” is a statement
  that actually does not appear in scripture at all. The ...
  www.familyshelterservice.org/scripture.PDF - Similar pages

  Hmmmfff..interesting, uh?

  sKally

  [edited to revise title]
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  DanTheMan

  He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him. (Prov.13:24)

  “Spare the rod and spoil the child” is a statement that actually does not appear in scripture at all. Thepoint of the actual proverb is to encourage parents to discipline children-- that is, to guide and directthem. The rod was most frequently used by the shepherd in biblical times to protect and guide thesheep or to pull them out of dangerous places, not to beat them, hence the reference in Psalm 23:“Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me”.

  That lame apologetic statement might as well have come from the pages of the Watchtower. The ancient Hebrews didn't beat the crap out of their kids, yeah right.
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  Euphemism

  "Rod" = shepherd's staff? Nice try, but...

  Pr 23:13,14
  

  Do not hold back discipline from the mere boy. In case you beat him with the rod, he will not die. With the rod you yourself should beat him, that you may deliver his very soul from She´ol itself.

  I've got to agree with Dan here... the proverb is, quite simply, advocating child abuse, which was considered culturally acceptable at the time
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  Momofmany

  In the copy of another bible translation this is what Prov. 23 13&14 says

  "Don't fail to correct your children. They won't die if you spank them. Physical discipline may well save them from death."

  I do believe there is a difference between a spanking and beating. imho
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  Euphemism

  MoM... the original Hebrew in that passage is Nakah. The literal translation would be "to smite." Here is the tabulation of the way the word is translated in the KJV:

  smite 348, slay 92, kill 20, beat 9, slaughter 5, stricken 3, given 3, wounded 3, strike 2, stripes 2, miscellaneous 13

  A few representative examples:

  Gen 8:21: neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
  
  Gen 34:30: and I being few in number, they shall gather themselves together against me, and slay me;
  
  Ex 5:14: And the officers of the children of Israel, which Pharaoh's taskmasters had set over them, were beaten
  
  Ex 21:20: And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
  
  De 25:2: And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down, and to be beaten before his face, according to his fault, by a certain number.
  
  Pr 17:10: A reproof entereth more into a wise man than an hundred stripes into a fool. Mal 4:6: lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

  So as you see, the word refers to the beating given a slave or a convict; it can even refer to a mortal blow.

  While I admire the attempt in your translation to soften the original meaning, the author of Proverbs does not appear to have had a simple spanking in mind.
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  Momofmany

  Thanks for that info. I did not know. I swear, I learned more about the bible and translations in the last two months than I have my whole life. Thanks for breaking it down for me. I do appreciate it.
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  SadElder

  Pardon me while I stand on my soap box for a second.

  Today's society has taken this stand that discipline is a bad thing. I don't mean beating the hell out of kids, but general correction, etc. Our teachers are afraid to give correction lest the offended parent come storming in demanding a reason why their poor little Susie or Johnny has been corrected. We now have a whole generation of parents who think their kids can do no wrong and heaven help anyone who dares correct their little perfect darlings. What ever happened to "it takes a whole village to raise a child"?

  In my day we didn't have kids gunning down other students and themselves. A little smack on the behind is just what today's kids need and maybe the parents too, Call me an old fogie, but my kids (who DID get a pop or two) have grown up well adjusted, not on Prozac, graduated college, two from med school, one raising great well behaved grand kids (who I can assure you get a pop on the backside should it be necessary) and I didn't kill any of them, nor ever needed to.

  So now let me get down off my soap box, I have to go throw up,
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  peacefulpete

  I liked the way the Philips translation worded Prov 23. "if you beat him with a rod, it is not LIKELY he will die".
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  Euphemism

  SadElder... the topic of the thread, as I understood, is whether or not the Bible advocates beating children.
  

  While I'm sure that many on this board--including parents--would disagree with you about the advisability of even light corporal punishment, that discussions seems--IMHO--to be pretty irrelevant to the thread.
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  sf

  Actually, the topic is as is stated in title, with question mark.

  Is 'spare the rod' a biblical scripture or someone's uttered interpretation of such? Did the actual phrase "spare the rod, spoil the child' come straight out of the bible somewhere? If so, where?

  Thank you for sharing.

  sKally