Jesus is Yahweh......Titles applied to YHWH and Jesus in Old and N.T.......credit to Bill Cetnar

by krismalone 20 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Doug Mason

  Hi Smiddy3.

  Good references include: "The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel", Mark Smith;

  "Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan", John Day.

  (Search online for PDF files -- or email me).

  "Asherah and the cult of Yahweh in Israel", Saul Olyan.

  "When God was a woman", Merlin Stone. etc., etc.

  In Genesis 1, the name of God is given as EL. He was the main God of Canaan (from the north). He and his wife Asherah had 70 children, all gods, one of whom was the warrior god Baal. The group was known as the Elohim ("let US make ..."). YHWH was not one of the Elohim.

  A group of Jews came up from the south, where Jethro, Moses' father-in-law, was priest to the God Yahweh. So this small group brought Yahweh, also a warrior god, up with them.

  The people who wrote Genesis 2 display the merging of YHWH with EL, hence we get YHWH EL => LORD God.

  The Israelites were quite tolerant (Monolatrists) and they worshipped several gods. A small minority faction were monotheists, worshipping YHWH. It is their propaganda that we now read, although traces of the opposing views still filter through. We read of the Yahwists' anger at the opposition. At one stage the people moved Asherah from EL and have her to YHWH. We read that they even put Asherah poles in the sanctuary.

  Both YHWH and Baal were warrior gods, hence the frenzied opposition we read about in the Yahwists' writings (Hebrew Scriptures)

  The Yahwists, who were centred in Jerusalem, used the opportunity given to them by the neo-Babylonian period. Read, for example, their manifesto at Isaiah 40. Or what they wrote at Deuteronomy 6:4.

  The nation that left Babylon was very different to the nation that went into captivity. From that time, the monotheists, the Yahwists, exerted increasing power. That was not the sole metamorphosis experienced by the Hebrews. Slowly they became known as Jews through living in Judah. Later, following the destruction of the temple in 70 CE, the rising Rabbinic Judaism slowly transformed the peoples into the versions we witness today.

  Any help?

  Doug
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  Crazyguy2

  Well the writers in the New Testament wanted a new god in Jesus so they equated him with Yahweh or his son. They even equated him with Amun in the book of Revelations. There’s like 5 or 6 synagogues found in Israel showing Yahweh as Helios, so syncretizing gods was common.
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  Rattigan350

  The whole premise of the diagram is based on his one dimensional logical and it fails.
  

  I had argued with Bill back in the 80s over this and how his diagram is put together from out of context texts.
  

  Jehovah is called Judge

  Jesus is said to Judge.

  So what? Does not mean they are the same person.

  Judge Judy is a Judge. Is she God?

  Jehovah is called Rock. Jesus is called Rock. Duane Johnson is called Rock. There is your trinity.
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  Finkelstein

  Both Jehovah and Jesus were was called Lord in the bible (NT.OT)

  The YHWH god of the ancient Hebrews came from the polytheist worship of the ancient Canaanite civilization which the Hebrew sect originated from.

  This almighty and greatest of gods was once called El or Elyon among the lower gods of the Canaanite pantheon of Canaanite gods, it was later on identified by the Hebrews with YHWH or Adonai .
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  Rattigan350

  Yes, Jehovah was called Lord. Jesus was called Lord. And there are sith Lords. But they are not all the same person.

  Lords are subject to Kings.
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  Finkelstein

  It might be unnerving to JWS knowing the god they worship originated from paganism of the ancient Canaanite civilization .

  The Elyon Witnesses ??? 😳
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  JoenB75

  I think the Oneness understanding is much better and I hope this view will become more popular outside the strict sectarian circles of the UPC sect. Many more believers deserve and need to know it. We have the freedom today, no longer are people burned alive for doctrines. Yes Jesus is Jehovah but a being does not exist in three persons. It is not a divine mystery, just something men made. With the Bible in hand, we can see that the Son is God existing as man. God reveals himself in many manners and one of these is his incarnation. The Word of John 1, which is both the cause of all things in the philosophy of Hellenism and the action and mind of God in revelation the old testament, became man in the Son of God.
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  Finkelstein

  The one of biggest mistakes mankind has made is accepting the writings in the bible as god's word or holy spirit directed words, from there mankind has interpreted these writings to an enormous amount of varying interpretations.

  The reality these writings are a mix of actual occurrence in ancient history combined with fictional expressions of ancient mythology, done with intent to create power and relevance to certain gods and the relationship to the people who worshiped these gods.
  
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  Terry Lawton

  Im going to sum this up in one verse.

  John 5:37

  You have not SEEN nor HEARD the FATHER.......

  [EVER!]

  So every time you SEE or HEAR YHWH in the OT, its the Word, the pre-incarnate Christ.

  Just let that sink in for a bit......
• 

  JoenB75

  Terry,

  John 14:8-9 New International Version (NIV)

  8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

  9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

  New International Version (NIV)

  
  

  
  

  I would add another thought, I think often when we read of God in the old testament, it is really angels representing him. given authority by him and sometimes even letting him down.