Barbour and 1874 contra 1914

by beroea 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • beroea
    beroea

    Barbour and 1874 contra 1914

    Does anyone have some information about why and how Barbour change that the gentiles times first was to end in 1874 and later on to 1914. I have some information about his statements about the year 1974 as the year for the return of Jesus (parausia) and also the year of the end of the gentile times.

    I have read the case of Carl Oluf Jönsson, but have found no good explanation to this question: Why and how did he change the gentile’s times to end in 1914 instead of 1974 as first counted.

    I think these questions are important because Russell adopted the chronology of Barbour almost in total.

    Beroea

  • Fredhall
    Fredhall

    Beroea,

    Carl Jonsson doesn't know what he is talking about.

  • logical
    logical

    Fred,

    OK, so he doesnt know what he is talking about. For you to make that comment means that YOU must know ALL about it, so why did you not explain it to beroea?

  • Fredhall
    Fredhall

    Logical,

    I'm so smart that I didn't pick up his books and read it.

  • uncle_onion
    uncle_onion

    Borea

    E mail me and I will pass on COJ e mail address ( I will ask him first of course)

    Fred

    Once again you are so full of it I have had to open the window again.

    UO

  • beroea
    beroea

    Thanks. I'll send you a mail.

    Beroea

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    To beroea:

    Barbour never said that the gentile times ended in 1874. He only said that they would end in 1914.

    For Barbour and Russell, 1874 represented many things, including the beginning of Christ's invisible presence, the end of 6,000 years of human history, the beginning of Christ's millennial rule and the beginning of the battle of Armageddon. In the early days of the Watch Tower Society, 1874 figured far more prominently than 1914, since the events that were to begin in 1914 were just a subset of the events occurring during the grand prophetic period that began in 1874.

    AlanF

  • beroea
    beroea

    Thanks for your post. Could you please inform about the backgroung of the statement and your sources.

    It's not to say your wrong - just want to see the evidence

    Beroea

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    There's tons of evidence and references to support what I said. You might want to get hold of James Penton's Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses for more information. You can also get hold of the 1993 JW Proclaimers book, and if you really want to get into this, you can get hold of reproductions or originals of early WTS material.

    Here are some comments from the Proclaimers book:

    *** jv 134-5 10 Growing in Accurate Knowledge of the Truth ***
    End of the Gentile Times
    The matter of Bible chronology had long been of great interest to Bible students. Commentators had set out a variety of views on Jesus’ prophecy about “the times of the Gentiles” and the prophet Daniel’s record of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream regarding the tree stump that was banded for “seven times.”—Luke 21:24, KJ; Dan. 4:10-17.
    As early as 1823, John A. Brown, whose work was published in London, England, calculated the “seven times” of Daniel chapter 4 to be 2,520 years in length. But he did not clearly discern the date with which the prophetic time period began or when it would end. He did, however, connect these “seven times” with the Gentile Times of Luke 21:24. In 1844, E. B. Elliott, a British clergyman, drew attention to 1914 as a possible date for the end of the “seven times” of Daniel, but he also set out an alternate view that pointed to the time of the French Revolution. Robert Seeley, of London, in 1849, handled the matter in a similar manner. At least by 1870, a publication edited by Joseph Seiss and associates and printed in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, was setting out calculations that pointed to 1914 as a significant date, even though the reasoning it contained was based on chronology that C. T. Russell later rejected.
    Then, in the August, September, and October 1875 issues of Herald of the Morning, N. H. Barbour helped to harmonize details that had been pointed out by others. Using chronology compiled by Christopher Bowen, a clergyman in England, and published by E. B. Elliott, Barbour identified the start of the Gentile Times with King Zedekiah’s removal from kingship as foretold at Ezekiel 21:25, 26, and he pointed to 1914 as marking the end of the Gentile Times.
    Early in 1876, C. T. Russell received a copy of Herald of the Morning. He promptly wrote to Barbour and then spent time with him in Philadelphia during the summer, discussing, among other things, prophetic time periods. Shortly thereafter, in an article entitled “Gentile Times: When Do They End?”, Russell also reasoned on the matter from the Scriptures and stated that the evidence showed that “the seven times will end in A.D. 1914.” This article was printed in the October 1876 issue of the Bible Examiner. The book Three Worlds, and the Harvest of This World, produced in 1877 by N. H. Barbour in cooperation with C. T. Russell, pointed to the same conclusion. Thereafter, early issues of the Watch Tower, such as the ones dated December 1879 and July 1880, directed attention to 1914 C.E. as being a highly significant year from the standpoint of Bible prophecy. In 1889 the entire fourth chapter of Volume II of Millennial Dawn (later called Studies in the Scriptures) was devoted to discussion of “The Times of the Gentiles.”

    *** jv 46-7 5 Proclaiming the Lord's Return (1870-1914) ***
    Russell had shied away from Biblical time prophecies. Now, however, he wondered: “Could it be that the time prophecies which I had so long despised, because of their misuse by Adventists, were really meant to indicate when the Lord would be invisibly present to set up his Kingdom?” With his insatiable thirst for Scriptural truth, Russell had to learn more. So he arranged to meet with Barbour in Philadelphia. This meeting confirmed their agreement on a number of Bible teachings and provided an opportunity for them to exchange views. “When we first met,” Russell later stated, “he had much to learn from me on the fulness of restitution based upon the sufficiency of the ransom given for all, as I had much to learn from him concerning time.” Barbour succeeded in convincing Russell that Christ’s invisible presence had begun in 1874.

    *** jv 47 5 Proclaiming the Lord's Return (1870-1914) ***
    “Resolved Upon a Vigorous Campaign for the Truth”
    C. T. Russell was a man of positive convictions. Convinced that Christ’s invisible presence had begun, he was determined to proclaim it to others. He later said: “The knowledge of the fact that we were already in the harvest period gave to me an impetus to spread the Truth such as I never had before. I therefore at once resolved upon a vigorous campaign for the Truth.” Russell now decided to curtail his business interests so as to devote himself to preaching.
    To counteract wrong views regarding the Lord’s return, Russell wrote the pamphlet The Object and Manner of Our Lord’s Return. It was published in 1877. That same year Barbour and Russell jointly published Three Worlds, and the Harvest of This World. This 196-page book discussed the subjects of restitution and Biblical time prophecies. Though each subject had been treated by others before, in Russell’s view this book was “the first to combine the idea of restitution with time-prophecy.” It presented the view that Jesus Christ’s invisible presence dated from the autumn of 1874.

    *** jv 133-4 10 Growing in Accurate Knowledge of the Truth ***
    In 1876, when Russell had first read a copy of Herald of the Morning, he had learned that there was another group who then believed that Christ’s return would be invisible and who associated that return with blessings for all families of the earth. From Mr. Barbour, editor of that publication, Russell also came to be persuaded that Christ’s invisible presence had begun in 1874. Attention was later drawn to this by the subtitle “Herald of Christ’s Presence,” which appeared on the cover of Zion’s Watch Tower.

    *** jv 631-2 28 Testing and Sifting From Within ***
    Using Bible chronology that had first been laid out by Christopher Bowen of England, they thought that 6,000 years of human history had ended in 1873, that thereafter they were in the seventh thousand-year period of human history, and that they had surely approached the dawn of the foretold Millennium. The series of books known as Millennial Dawn (and later called Studies in the Scriptures), which were penned by C. T. Russell, drew attention to the implications of this according to what the Bible Students understood from the Scriptures.
    Something else that was seen as a possible time indicator involved the arrangement that God instituted in ancient Israel for a Jubilee, a year of release, every 50th year. This came after a series of seven 7-year periods, each of which ended with a sabbath year. During the Jubilee year, Hebrew slaves were freed and hereditary land possessions that had been sold were restored. (Lev. 25:8-10) Calculations based on this cycle of years led to the conclusion that perhaps a greater Jubilee for all the earth had begun in the autumn of 1874, that evidently the Lord had returned in that year and was invisibly present, and that “the times of restitution of all things” had arrived.—Acts 3:19-21, KJ.

    *** jv 139-40 10 Growing in Accurate Knowledge of the Truth ***
    Back in August 1880, Brother Russell had written: “We understand that before the human family are restored or even begin to be blessed the present kingdoms of earth which now bind and oppress mankind will all be overturned and that the kingdom of God will assume control and that the blessing and restitution come through the new kingdom.” How would that ‘overturning of kingdoms’ take place? Based on conditions that he could then see developing in the world, Russell believed that during the war of Armageddon, God would use contending factions of mankind to overthrow existing institutions. He said: “The work of demolishing human empire is beginning. The power that will overthrow them is now at work. The people are already organizing their forces under the name of Communists, Socialists, Nihilists, etc.”
    The book The Day of Vengeance (later called The Battle of Armageddon), published in 1897, further enlarged on the way the Bible Students then understood the matter, saying: “The Lord, by his overruling providence, will take a general charge of this great army of discontents—patriots, reformers, socialists, moralists, anarchists, ignorants and hopeless—and use their hopes, fears, follies and selfishness, according to his divine wisdom, to work out his own grand purposes in the overthrow of present institutions, and for the preparation of man for the Kingdom of Righteousness.” Thus they understood the war of Armageddon to be associated with violent social revolution.

    Here are some comments and excerpts from early WTS literature:

    The 1877 book written by N. H. Barbour and financed by C. T. Russell, Three Worlds and the Harvest of This World, contained the basis for Russell's later chronology and many of his doctrines. Note these excerpts:

    THE END OF THIS WORLD; that is, the end of the gospel and the beginning of the millennial age is nearer than most men suppose; indeed we have already entered the transition period, which is to be a "time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation" (Dan. 12:1).... [p. 17].

    In the world to come, the first, or millennial age, is to be a 1000 years; and is introduced by the "time of trouble," so often referred to in Scripture. There is very conclusive evidence that this time of trouble is to continue 40 years; and has already commenced; and that "men's hearts are [beginning already] to fail them with fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth". [p. 18]

    Zion's Watch Tower, January 15, 1892, pages 21-23, stated again that the final battle of Armageddon had already begun, its end to come in 1914:

    The date of the close of that "battle" is definitely marked in Scripture as October, 1914. It is already in progress, its beginning dating from October, 1874. Thus far it has been chiefly a battle of words and a time of organizing forces.... Never was there such a general time of banding together as at present. Not only are nations allying with each other for protection against other nations, but the various factions in every nation are organizing to protect their several interests.... This feature of the battle must continue with varying success to all concerned; the organization must be very thorough; and the final struggle will be comparatively short, terrible and decisive -- resulting in general anarchy.

    The May, 1881 Watch Tower, on page 5, discussed the current beliefs about what might happen in the fall of 1881, and summarized the beliefs about time prophecies:

    We believe that all time prophecies (bearing upon Jesus' coming) ended at and before the fall of 1874, and that He came there, and the second advent is now in progress and will continue during the entire Millennial age. We believe that his presence will be revealed to the eyes of men's understandings gradually during this "Day of the Lord," (forty years -- from 1874 to 1914,) as it now is to ours; except that we, discern it through the word of prophecy revealed by the Spirit, and they will recognize his presence by His judgment upon Nominal Zion, and the World.

    Russell said in The Time Is At Hand, pages 40, 100:

    If, then, the seventh thousand-year period of earth's history be an epoch specially noted as the period of Christ's reign, we shall, by showing that it began in A.D. 1873, be proving that we are already in it. This calls to mind what we have already noted in the preceding volume, that the Scriptures indicated that the dawn of the Millennium, or Day of the Lord, will be dark and stormy, and full of trouble upon the world and upon the nominal church....

    So, in this "Day of Jehovah," the "Day of Trouble," our Lord takes his great power (hitherto dormant) and reigns, and this it is that will cause the trouble, though the world will not so recognize it for some time....

    AlanF

  • beroea
    beroea

    Thanks. I will take a closer look. Looking good.

    Beroea

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