"One drop of poison in a glass of water"

by stuckinarut2 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Half banana
    Half banana

    The idea of avoiding things with a drop of poison is interesting.

    It can supply awakened JWs with the reason to leave as they come to realize that many Watchtower doctrines contain more than just a drop of poison.

    However on the matter of what constitutes a poison, salt, pepper, apricot kernels and juniper berries are all poisons but It was the Swiss physician Paracelsus who explained in the sixteenth century that the key is in the dosage.

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    This bogus illustration--you do drink water with "one drop" of poison. In fact, your water has 1.2 ppm of elemental fluoride, most of which is added as fluorosilicic acid (it used to be sodium fluoride). These are in fact poisons. The other place fluoride is found in is rat poison. This has a health rating from OSHA of 4. This is the most dangerous category they have. Yet, they intentionally add it to your water to make you more susceptible to communism and more resistant to anyone that might be telling the truth that offends those who live by the lie.

    Effectively, this is to keep you from enjoying anything. You listen to music, it has one note that could barely be taken the wrong way and it is the "drop of poison". That renders the whole album, and the discography of whoever performed that album, "bad". One mild swear word ruins a whole movie. You like colored lights--say, for effects? They might be tainted with Christmas, itself taken from a valid sun worship ceremony that is in harmony with nature. That pie--could that be another element of Christmas? Everything could be held as "bad" using this one drop of poison excuse--when you are probably drinking fluoridated water that has the drop of poison anyways.

  • LoyalLeon
    LoyalLeon

    typical JW black white logic, no shades of grey (or even colours, beware!) allowed..

  • recovering
    recovering

    Half banana you are spot on . Depends on what the poison is.and it's concentration. A drop of Sodium hypochlorite (household bleach) is toxic if you drink it in 100% concentration. Howerever, if you add a bit to a gallon of contaminated water it makes it safe to drink.

    Perhaps.allowing that drop of critical thinking skills would allow for a more balanced religion.

  • OrphanCrow
    OrphanCrow

    "If you are in desperate need of a drink of water, and the glass in front of you is 99% clean, but contains just 1% poison, would you drink it??"

    *sigh* Yet another one of those silly JW "illustrations" that has no grounding in reality.

    The Story of Coumadin
    By: Jeff Guillory, RN, MSN, CFNP

    Coumadin is one of those drugs which are frequently considered poisons more than
    medicines. It is common to hear the word Coumadin in the same sentence with “rat
    poison.” This is because, it’s true. Coumadin is the brand name for the drug “warfarin.”
    This is the story of warfarin and how it came from killing cows to becoming the most
    widely used rat killer in the world, to being one of our greatest drugs used in certain
    patients for the prevention of strokes.

    If there are JWs who are prescribed Warfarin (and there is likely lots - it is a fairly common drug now), they already consume "a drop of poison" every day.

    *a little piece of trivia...Dwight Eisenhower, the American president with Bible Student/JW background, was instrumental in bringing this drug to market (from the above link):

    Coumadin (warfarin) was not used frequently until 1955 when President Dwight D.
    Eisenhower had a heart attack while on vacation at his in-laws' house in Denver.
    Coumadin was used to prevent clots from forming in President Eisenhower’s damaged
    and weakened heart. Eisenhower's long term treatment included Coumadin 35 mg per
    week. Since then, it has been one of the most widely prescribed drugs in the United
    States.

    And then there is arsenic:

    Arsenic is a trace element. It is found in several foods including seafood, poultry, grains (especially rice), bread, cereal products, mushrooms, and dairy products. Some forms of arsenic are used as medicine.
    Despite serious safety concerns, arsenic is often used as a part of extremely diluted homeopathic remedies that are used for digestive disorders, food poisoning, sleep problems (insomnia), allergies, anxiety, depression, and obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD). Arsenic is also contained in traditional Chinese medicine formulas and used for psoriasis; syphilis; asthma; joint pain (rheumatism); hemorrhoids; cough; itchiness; cancer; to reduce swelling (as an anti-inflammatory agent); and as a general tonic and pain-killer.
    Healthcare providers sometimes give arsenic trioxide intravenously (by IV) to treat a type of bloodcancer called acute promyelocytic leukemia. This arsenic product is available by prescription only.
    Natural medicines can be contaminated with arsenic and may produce symptoms of poisoning when consumed in large amounts or for extended periods of time. Cases of arsenic poisoning have been reported with homeopathic arsenic products and with kelp supplements. High arsenic levels have been reported in people who consume raw opium for long periods of time. Measurable levels of arsenic may be found in some calciumsupplements made from algae or shells. A study of 251 herbal products sold in the US detected arsenic in 36 (14%) of them.
    I think it was an arsenic preparation that was used to try to treat Bethany Hughes, the young JW girl from Canada who made the news several years ago. That treatment was arranged by the illustrious HLC crew. And she died.

    So, to answer that stupid question from a JW if you would drink a drop of poison, I guess the answer would be "Oh yeah. It will be okay if the HLC arranges it."

  • stuckinarut2
    stuckinarut2

    Thanks for all the replies.

    It is true that the illustration is flawed. It does indeed represent the narrow thinking of JW's. It is simple and inaccurate. With just a slight amount of critical thinking, it can indeed be debunked.

    But, it is often used by THEM to illustrate that there should be NO tainting from "satanic or worldly" sources.

    That's why it came to mind.

    I am simply thinking that it may be helpful to use on JWs who try and justify the many "corrupting" elements that the Society is and has been involved with.

  • OrphanCrow
    OrphanCrow
    stuckinarut: I am simply thinking that it may be helpful to use on JWs who try and justify the many "corrupting" elements that the Society is and has been involved with.

    You are right. It would be.

    Lol! I got sidetracked by stupidity.

    The org has far more than just a "drop" of poison inside it - it is toxic to the core

  • stuckinarut2
    stuckinarut2

    So true OrphanCrow. So True

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    "One drop of poison in a glass of water" sounds like the essence of homeopathy to me, and plenty of JWs are into that pre-scientific claptrap about how "vibrations" rule the universe.

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Homeopathy

    Homeopathy or homœopathy is a system of alternative medicine developed in 1796 by Samuel Hahnemann, based on his doctrine of "like cures like," a claim that a substance that causes the symptoms of a disease in healthy people would cure similar symptoms in sick people. Homeopathy is a pseudoscience – a belief that is incorrectly presented as scientific. Homeopathic preparations are not effective for treating any condition; large-scale studies have found homeopathy to be no more effective than a placebo, indicating that any positive effects that follow treatment are only due to the placebo effect, normal recovery from illness, or regression toward the mean.

    Hahnemann believed the underlying causes of disease were phenomena that he termed miasms, and that homeopathic preparations addressed these. The preparations are manufactured using a process of homeopathic dilution, in which a chosen substance is repeatedly diluted in alcohol or distilled water, each time with the containing vessel being struck against an elastic material, commonly a leather-bound book. Dilution typically continues well past the point where no molecules of the original substance remain. Homeopaths select homeopathics by consulting reference books known as repertories, and by considering the totality of the patient's symptoms, personal traits, physical and psychological state, and life history.

    Homeopathy is not a plausible system of treatment, as its dogmas about how drugs, illness, the human body, liquids and solutions operate are contradicted by a wide range of discoveries across biology, psychology, physics and chemistry made in the two centuries since its invention. Although some clinical trials produce positive results, multiple systematic reviews have indicated that this is because of chance, flawed research methods, and reporting bias. Homeopathic practice has been criticized as unethical because it discourages the use of effective treatments, with the World Health Organization warning against using homeopathy to try to treat severe diseases such as HIV and malaria. The continued practice of homeopathy, despite a lack of evidence of efficacy, has led to it being characterized within the scientific and medical communities as nonsense, quackery, and a sham.

    There have been four large scale assessments of homeopathy by national or international bodies: the Australian National Health and Medical Research Council; the United Kingdom's House of Commons Science and Technology Committee; the European Academies' Science Advisory Council; and the Swiss Federal Health Office. Each concluded that homeopathy is ineffective, and recommended against the practice receiving any further funding. The National Health Service in England has announced a policy of not funding homeopathic medicine because it is "a misuse of resources". They have called on the UK Department of Health to add homeopathic remedies to the blacklist of forbidden prescription items.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    FROM http://www.rcinet.ca/en/2018/02/08/scientific-anger-over-college-degree-in-homeopathy/ --

    Scientific anger over college degree in homeopathy

    By Marc Montgomery | english@rcinet.ca

    Thursday 8 February, 2018

    A number of medical and scientific personnel are expressing their shock at an Ontario Community College.

    Starting this fall, Georgian College in Barrie, Ontario, will offer a diploma in homeopathy, a practice the critics says is mere quackery.

    The critics are also upset that public money is helping fund the three-year course as the community college is publicly funded institution and students can request loans and grants from the publicly supported Ontario Student Assistance Programme.

    The critics say the college course is legitimising a pseudo-science. In a 1998 editorial in the Journal of the American Medical Association, Drs Fontanarosa and Lundberg wrote in part; “There is no alternative medicine. There is only scientifically proven, evidence-based medicine supported by solid data, or unproven medicine, for which scientific evidence is lacking”.

    In an open letter to the local paper the Barrie Advance, Dr. Chris Giorshev wrote in part that the otherwise respected college “has recently drifted into teaching pseudo-science by introducing a homeopathy program”.

    Saying that homeopathy makes no scientific sense he wonders how such a course could “even be delivered ethically” then adds,”A harmful consequence of offering homeopathy at colleges is that it gives it an air of legitimacy. This greater perceived respectability will inevitably lead people to assume, quite wrongly, that homeopathy is a valid form of medical treatment”.

    In a PostMedia article, Joe Schwarcz, director of McGill University’s Office for Science and Society is quoted saying, “The real danger in homeopathy is not toxicology — there’s nothing in there,” he added. “The real danger is toxicity to the mind because it can convince people to go down this ridiculous route when there actually might be treatments that can work for whatever condition they have.”

    Homeopathy became a licenced profession in the province of Ontario in 2015, which also raised criticism at the time and since as giving some degree of legitimacy to the field.

    ==================================

    FROM https://www.rt.com/news/418444-ontario-college-homeopathy-pseudoscience/ --

    ‘3yrs of pseudoscience nonsense’: Canadian college forced to scrap homeopathy program

    Published time: 11 Feb, 2018 03:03

    A college in the Canadian province of Ontario has been forced to cancel its established three-year course in homeopathy after critics said the publicly funded institution is wasting taxpayers money on “pseudoscience.”

    Georgian College in Barrie has created a three-year advanced diploma program aimed at teaching students “classical and contemporary homeopathic principles and techniques in the evaluation and treatment of acute and chronic health conditions,” based on “individualized, holistic and natural approaches to health and healing.” However, as soon as the program was publicly announced for next fall, it came under pressure from a local physician eager to shut the course down.

    Ontario was the first province in Canada to regulate homeopathy in 2015 after the province’s Homeopathy Act (2007) came into force. The act formalized regulation for all professional homeopaths and created the College of Homeopaths of Ontario (CHO) to which all practitioners must belong. The unique six-semester program at Georgian College was designed to meet the requirements of the CHO, which falls under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care.

    However, staunch opposition to the program forced the publicly funded Georgian College to shut down its alternative medicine course over accusations of promoting “pseudoscience” and “magical thinking.” Local physician, Chris Giorshev, who chairs the Ontario Medical Association’s section on chronic pain, also accused the college of using “publicly funded health dollars for quackery.”

    Homeopathy is a pseudoscience and this alone should be sufficient to reject the inclusion of such a program at a publicly funded institution,” Giorshev wrote in a letter to Ontario’s minister of advanced education and skills development, as well as the community college’s board and president. “There are at least 12 international organizations that have evaluated the literature and again and again they find homeopathy does nothing,” Giorshev, was quoted as saying by the National Post.

    “To put students through three years of nonsense so that they can go out and practice placebo treatments is totally unfair to those students and it’s unfair to the public,” added Joe Schwarcz, director of McGill University’s Office of Science and Society, in an interview with CBC.

    While the college defended its program as late as Friday morning, by afternoon it had announced the closure of the advanced diploma homeopathy course. “In light of the recent response from our local community and beyond ... Georgian College has made the decision to cancel the homeopathy program,” the college said in a statement.

    While welcoming the “fantastic” news of the program cancellation, Giorshev however told Barrie Today he is still “concerned that it was introduced to begin with” and that “homeopathy is still considered a regulated profession.”

    Invented in 1796 by German physician Samuel Hahneman, homeopathy is defined by the CHO to be “a system of medicine” based on the principle of “let likes be cured by likes,” which means that a substance that causes particular symptoms in healthy people should somehow cure similar symptoms in sick people. As of March 31, 2017, two years after proclamation of the Homeopathy Act 2007, the College of Homeopaths of Ontario had issued certificates of registration to 486 homeopaths.

    The controversial practice has been long disputed worldwide. In 2009, the World Health Organization cautiously warned against relying on homeopathy in treating a select range of diseases, including HIV, tuberculosis, malaria, influenza and infant diarrhea. In 2015 the National Health and Medical Research Council of Australia said that there is no evidence that homeopathy is effective, adding that people who choose this treatment put their health at risk. homeopathy Last year, the Russian Academy of Sciences called homeopathy a “pseudoscience” with no scientific basis, saying its methods contradict chemical, physical and biological laws.

  • doubtfull1799
    doubtfull1799

    Ha, many years ago when I was working for the writing department and we were encouraged to submit article suggestions I had every article I submitted approved EXCEPT two. One I tried to write on homeopathy and other pseudoscientific alternative medical nonsense. The other was an article on propaganda! They have since published a recent article on propaganda as you know....

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