being given holy spirit is not the same as being anointed, nor are they the same as 144,000
So Im at my moms the other day, and there lay the latest January study issue has an article about the whole made up silly story of the upper room and the holy spirit. [ how hard it is to be quiet....]
I have never read Acts, and saw that story happen. this fabricated story is all the Watchtower has to fabricate its whole teaching of being chosen to be one of the anointed 144,000. once you see it never happened, then the whole thing falls apart.
How I saw It, was that it was three separate events, two of them were specifically discussing the 12 apostles.
none of the events , IMO, were intended to included people who were not under the law.
[IMO, the SIN, was NOT following the law. period. anyone not following the law was a sinner. even if you were a perfect non religious person.lol ]
So, my question is,
Where has the reader of a bible interpreted the phrase 'receiving holy spirit' also meaning the same as being anointed?
and then blending that in with being 144,000, AND going to heaven?I'm understanding the meaning of, to anoint, is to be anointed with oil, or given a position of responsibility or duty.
In looking up every scripture cited, in that article, [ one sentence in a scripture and a suggestion, does not fly with me.] intended to support that WT theory, and reading the entire account in Acts none of them will lead a reader to conclude that.
1.the house in chapter one is the same as the house in chapter 2 .
2 . there were more than the 12 apostles that received the holy spirit in the house they were staying in in ch 2.
[confirmed by acts ch 1 vs 8- 11] [and ch 2 vs 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans?] acts 2 14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews ...]
2. that the people at Pentecost celebration were of the 144,000 .
3. that some of the people at the Pentecost were gentiles.[acts 2 vs 5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.] lol, from every nation under heaven? [also see above]
4. that any women were involved in the gifts of the holy spirit, or being anointed, or being of 144,000
or being in attendance at the choosing of the new disciple [at acts 1 vs 15 - 26] .
Verse 15, In ch 1, does not say this event happened that day at Pentecost,[ some bibles do not include women in vs 16 of ch 1,] nor does it lead one to reason that this happened in either 'house.'.. [they were voting on who to replace judas, not a decision for women to make. most likely ]
so now, does the WT think this story is supposed to do for everyone? they blend three events all into one mish mash.
I never got the whole point of the story.
where does it say in the bible that women are of the 144000?
[an answer i never got,lol, not one scripture to back it up]
where is it said that the 144,000 are ‘spirit’ anointed?
is the term 'spirit anointed' in the bible? and to whom is it referring
were does it say that those 144,000 are chosen over any period of time?
where does it say that they were to be taken to heaven to serve as kings and priests? [not over earth, its on earth]
where does it say that only 144,000 partake?
who said Gods children were only , or also the 144,000?
and even better yet,
where does it say that anyone other than the 12 apostles partake?
and who said those 144,000 first born male children of The tribes were not in fact sacrificed? lol .
many religions teach that,
that all Christians are given holy spirit,
and all Christians were anointed to spread the gospel of Christ,
so that means
all Christians are ‘anointed’ with holy spirit to teach.
Now for the Watchtower, I ask,
if all Christians are not 'anointed' with the 'holy spirit', and 'chosen', and only 144000 are
then, this means no one but Jesus the apostles, [those ones in that mystery room],
and 144000 have the holy spirit. and only they can teach.
and that means We cannot pray for the help of the holy spirit, since to be given holy spirit means to be anointed with that logic.
and that means all of those who claim to be of the anointed, '144000' would be teaching, not 7 men in new york. including those ones that are labeled as mentally unstable, lol.
oh wait, those mentally unstable 7 members are... ah, now i get it, lol
I can’t believe there wasn’t a bigger uproar over the new understanding of the FDS. Too me they essentially took everything they taught over the last 100 years about this magical class of Christians and just threw it away.
I really wish the average JW knew how academically irresponsible to create core doctrine around the book of revelations.
You make a lot of good points.
Other than the 7 so called anointed GB members the rest of the remnant are of no importance. I guess the only reason why they are told they are anointed is so they know they should be partaking once a year.
I not sure if this will help but Christ is the only one anointed, believers in Christ are part of Christs body and being part of his body means they are part of him anointed through him. All Christians are part of the body their is no distinction or favoritism. Any other understanding is not what the writers were trying to get across and is a lie.
You mean Judge Rutherford isn't anionted? Are you mad? LOL. Don't you know that he is in heaven at this very minuet sitting on a throne wearing his crown dressed in priestly robes supping wine with Jesus reading our disgraceful posts? Oh if only we could all be like such a man who sacrificed so much for so many, so kind, so warm, so giving.. You know if the Son of God's expectations are met with men like Russel, Rutherford, Norr, Franz etc, I don't think the rest of us have to much to worry about a.
just about all religions knowingly or not are playing games with words. Most do not understand how language works and this works to the advantage of con artists and thieves such that religious leaders are...
when we speak we transmit instructions on how to pick experiences and order them... the problem is that our experiences are not the same as the authors and likely not even the same as the members of the GB. This means they can create imaginary experiences and assign our words to them.
JWs brag that you can ask any JW anywhere in the world the very same question and get the very same answer... and this for the most part is true, however when you question that they MEAN by that answer, you get 10 different answers from 10 different people.
It's so funny/not funny how they keep changing what is a founding core belief. I mean, everything hinges on they being "inspired but not inspired" and so the reason we should believe everything they say.
The 144000 are sealed, not anointed. Rev 7. out of the 12 tribes, they are not the totality of the tribes.
Here's the cherry-picked scriptures that support the view of the anointed = 144000.
Rev 7:4: "And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed..."
Eph 1:13,14: "But you also hoped in him after you heard the word of truth, the good news about your salvation. After you believed, you were sealed by means of him with the promised holy spirit, 14 which is a token in advance of our inheritance, for the purpose of releasing God’s own possession by a ransom, to his glorious praise."
2 Cor 1:21,22: "But the one who guarantees that you and we belong to Christ and the one who anointed us is God. 22 He has also put his seal on us and has given us the token of what is to come, that is, the spirit, in our hearts."
Also, these are some sort of a connection:
Rev 14:4: "These are the ones who did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins. These are the ones who keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb,"
James 1:18: "18 It was his will to bring us forth by the word of truth, so that we would become a kind of firstfruits of his creatures."
2 Cor 1:21,22 is the ONLY passage that links anointing and sealing. But, if you read carefully, you will see that the are two separate things. vs. 22: "He has also put his seal..."
Edit: having a very hard time with editing today. This keeps removing portions of what I write. Bizarre.
Luke wrote Acts. Luke also wrote Luke.
Read Luke 25:50-53 and it tells you that when they left the Ascension they were "continually in the Temple blessing God" From day 40 on...
This means that the "house" they were in was God's house, one of the buildings on the Temple grounds, when this event took place.
And why should they be anywhere else? Jesus gave instructions as seen in Acts 1:4 to "stay in Jerusalem" and wait for the outpouring.
And read Acts carefully.
Only Gallileans were speaking in tongues. Acts 2:7
And why only Galilleans? Acts 1:11
It was only the Apostles speaking in multiple languages, 19 mentioned there. And the miracle was they, the Apostles, were speaking and being understood in these 19 various languages SIMULTANEOUSLY.
The ones spoken of as being "drunk" were not the apostles, but rather the listeners that were saying they were understanding the speech in their mother tongue. After all, all these who were speaking were Galilleans. How could they possibly be speaking the language where 19 different languages grew up from youth.
If you plot the events by date on the calendar, best if you use the Jewish calendar but ok if you use the Gregorian, the events of Iyar and Sivan come to life and demonstrate that the Pentecost that really happened is nothing like the fictitious Pentecost of Watchtower. It's also nothing like the Pentecost of the Pentecostal church from whom they borrowed it.
If you calculate 120 persons with an average weight of 125 lbs, you have 15,000 lbs of weight. No Jewish structure of the time would have tolerated that kind of stress. That's almost 8 tons. Could you put an 8 ton truck on the roof of your residential home? How many modern balconies have fallen because there were 20 smokers out there having a cigarette? No archeologist or engineer would suggest the Pentecost bologna offered by Watchtower or the Pentecostal Church.
Furthermore, 3000 persons were baptized at this event. Where could they be baptized but in the bathing pools at the Temple, below Solomon's Portico??
In an effort to address the fact that Acts tells of thousands of persons hearing Peter's speech on this day, Watchtower offered nothing in print, but rather placed, within the article on this years ago, an artist conception of Peter on a balcony. Unholy mother of the devil! Where did they get the idea of Peter on a balcony speaking to the throngs down below?