Atheism would not appeared if …

by venus 43 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  towerwatchman

  To venus

  Science: No place for supernatural beliefs, Does not accept godmen or anybody unquestioningly, No miracle in science, Based on Method of Science, Makes testable predictions, Science is dynamic – evolves continuously, In science, truth is not somebody’s opinion. It can be verified, tested and validated. Built-in correction present, Questioning is one’s fundamental right, Scientists do not have any hesitation to admit that they don’t know, International, Unites the people, Guided by logic.

  None of this is etched in stone. They all have one flaw, the honesty of the ones involved, and over the years I noticed one common thread. Most will not sacrifice either their prestige or position to go against what has been accepted by the majority of Academia.

  Something else you should think about. Science is good but science is limited. Science tells us that if we give grandma poison she will die, but science does not tell us why it is wrong to give grandma poison.
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  Cold Steel

  Venus, I can see what you're saying, but if you read the great patristic scholars and churchmen (both Jewish and Christian), religion isn't painted with your brush. How would you define "supernatural" for example? Is God supernatural? Not if he exists. How about dark matter? Neither can be seen, felt or measured.

  How about miracles? How difficult would it be to change water into wine if one understood and had mastery over string dynamics in science? Could advanced beings use it to create worlds, clad beings with spirit, then matter? Part the Red Sea? If God exists, and if he's revealed himself to us as the scriptures state, it would stand to reason that He would be a master scientist. And according to Genesis, God not only is plural ("we," "us"), there also appears to be a female element ("male and female, in his image"). That man is incapable of comprehending the worlds God creates should be no more difficult to accept than quantum mechanics, which we haven't even touched.

  God has repeatedly told man than he (Man) is completely unable to understand the things of God at this point of his, Man's, development. If the Hebrew prophets simply made God up, they did an outstanding job of consistency over the ages -- more so than any other theology.

  Thus, if there is a God, it stands to reason He would reveal Himself...and conceal Himself.

  But this is the key to theology.
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  konceptual99

  The more science provides a rational framework for explaining the world around us, the more theists have to wrap God up in mystical and philosophical nonsense to allow for his existence, impotence and inaction.
• 

  baker

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn5bKALeSyM

  I like this 13 year old,s theory that god is an energy source. His parents must be proud of him
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  Cold Steel

  Being smart is one thing. Acquiring wisdom takes time. Perhaps in fifty years this kid will have a different take on things.
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  venus

  David_Jay

  My point is not about positioning of scriptures (whether it comes after or before the inception of religion matters not). My point is that atheists could not find a god that exerts power over religion, scriptures and believers. Atheists who have no problem in accepting things that are real would find no need to reject God if His influence were to be seen in religions, scriptures and believers. The very fact that we are all here shows that we left JWs because we found God exerting no influence over the so-called God’s own people.
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  venus

  Cold Steel,

  You conclude: Thus, if there is a God, it stands to reason He would reveal Himself...and conceal Himself

  No influence of God is seen in religions, scriptures and believers which in turn gave reason for the appearance of atheism. For example, one high profile atheist is known for his question: “Why do people kill in the name of God if He really exists?”

  
  

  But my point is: Is God responsible for this phenomenon? We know that prisons exist as a testimony against the fact the society does not like people to violate laws—yet prison exerts no influence on people who are bent on violating laws. That means God exerting no influence is not a case against his existence. People would behave the way they like whether God exists or not—some believers may act wickedly, and some atheists may act altruistically which means knowledge that God exists or not does not exert any influence on people. This may be the reason why God shows no interest in clearing all the misconception about Himself.
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  Anony Mous

  I would posit that atheists created theists. From a purely natural perspective (when you are born, our closest relatives in nature and even early pre-society humans) there is no inherent need for or belief in a 'god', in fact it is a rather costly endeavor which is detrimental to the survival of small groups.

  Eventually a crafty atheist noticed that as his group of people grew, people would listen to him if he had an explanation for the things that happened to them but he also didn't want to get an axe to the skull when things went wrong and thus theism was born (the basic tenets of all religion: god did it, god gives and god takes, you can come to god only through me and if you don't, you'll die).
• 

  smiddy

  Atheism has appeared simply because no GOD has ever come out to defend himself/herself against unbelievers.

  Their are over 40,000 christian sects that claim to believe in GOD/JESUS many of which claim to be the truth

  Most of which contradict each other over doctrines and interpretations of what the scriptures actually say or mean.

  Apart from that their are thousands of non Christian religions that promote myriads of GODS to their believers from all over the world.

  And this is not something that has just sprung up in just this last Century it has been ongoing for many centuries past.Thousands of years.

  Where has GOD been all this time ? Why has he/she not stepped in to defend itself ? against all this negativity agaist its existence ?

  GOD -SILENCE

  This is why ATHEISM exists.
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  David_Jay

  Venus,

  My point is not about positioning of scriptures (whether it comes after or before the inception of religion matters not). My point is that atheists could not find a god that exerts power over religion, scriptures and believers. Atheists who have no problem in accepting things that are real would find no need to reject God if His influence were to be seen in religions, scriptures and believers. The very fact that we are all here shows that we left JWs because we found God exerting no influence over the so-called God’s own people.

  You misunderstood my statement completely.
  

  I wrote that in light of the Cambridge study, one cannot argue that religion has anything to do with the start of atheism.

  The Cambridge study (and others like it) providence evidence that atheism grew just as naturally and even independently of religion. The history data suggests that instead of atheism being a response to religion's failure, the empirical evidence is that atheism is as natural a conclusion in the historical experience as religion has been.

  The comment about written texts was offered in support to the study's conclusion. As scripture texts for the great religions did not develop until after Marcionism of the 2nd century C.E., and movements like Judaism and Christianity predated Marcion of Sinope, one cannot argue against the data of the study.

  In other words, I was supporting the study's conclusion: atheism is as spontaneous to the human condition as religion and did not come about due to religion but due to the human capacity for logic. Atheism, the study from Cambridge states, is just as ancient as and organically independent of religion.

  When you read the study (which I am sure you did), didn't you see that connection, that atheism is not a response to religion and did not require religion in order to develop? The Cambridge study is in support of atheism and shows that it would have (and did) develop regardless of the existence of religion. Atheism is a natural human response, not a response to religion. It would have existed even if religion never did develop.