Resurrection... to what TYPE of body?

by AGuest 19 Replies latest jw friends

AGuest

Hey, Daddy-O... and may you have peace!
Farkel, I can't PUT all of the scriptures and verses because sometimes there just isn't enought TIME. I have given you the information... can't YOU look up the scriptures and verses? It should be easy, especially if you have a concordance, and even easier if you simply ask my Lord.
But, with regard to the resurrection, when, what kind of body, etc., etc., etc... let me start you off with:
1 Corinthians 15:20-57
1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
Revelation 20:7, 11-15
Matthew 17:1, 2
Genesis 3:22-24
John 10:9
Genesis 28:12
Job 1:7
Revelation 21:12, 26, 27
Matthew 22:11-13
Why don't you... and others... 'get it', Daddy-0? Besides your lack of faith, the words at Matthew 13:9-15 should shed a little more 'light' on the subject for you. Don't gnash your teeth TOO hard, now. You know the older we get, the more detrimental it is to us to do that - BIG KISS!
Love to you, dear one... and peace... ALWAYS!
Your servant, friend and a slave of Christ.
(Re: the good/evil thing, can you ask your questions one more time, please? PLEASE? Because I REALLY thought I had, but you're saying I didn't, so perhaps you should 'break it down' a bit for THIS 'dummy'. Thank you kindly.)
SJ
AGuest

Dearest Mark (Crossroads)... may you have peace!
I am a 'she', my name is Shelby (most folks here already know that), I am 41 years old, I have met a few of the folks here personally, I am not the only one who 'hears' by any means, and I am NOT 'connected' to the imposters in Brooklyn (indeed, they wouldn't have me and their local henchmen intimated that I was too young and too Black to be 'anointed', and said that I just read my Bible too much. I am speaking truth to you. Although, Barber DID try to say at first that I was 'dancin' with demons,' but eventually it was he that was silenced... and exposed. Part of me feels sorry for him; part of me doesn't.)
Now, where were we. Yes, you wanted to know:
"... how do you get to this peaceful place that gives you all this insight that none of us others seem to have..."
First, let me restate that there ARE others that have it. Some post here and other forums; some have other 'territories', if I can use that terminology (okay, okay, I'm SORRY... but I thought it would help you understand...). Some, while putting FAITH in him, though, will not PROFESS him, because of their 'fear of the Pharisees'.
My personal 'story' is that when I received the promised holy spirit, one of the 'gifts' of that spirit was 'discernment of inspired utterances'... or hearing spirits. I had heard them for most of my life (and believe it or not, you have, too), but I had been TAUGHT they what I heard was everything BUT my Lord... including myself. Rather than being taught to LISTEN to the voice, I was taught... by religion, and pretty much mankind in general... NOT to listen. And so, I didn't, not really. I mean, I heard... but I did not always listen and certainly did not 'attribute' the voice to anything spiritual.
At least, not until I ASKED... and received what I asked for. See, after many, many years of being in the 'org', and passing the bread and wine by (and living with a BAD conscience for doing so, almost a self-loathing), I decided that I could not do that anymore, and so, one year, I ate... and drank... in faith. I knew I was SUPPOSED to, no matter what OTHERS thought or said. And they SAID... a lot. Oh, well.
Shortly after that, I started having other BAD conscience experiences in that I felt like, "Jehovah, Jehovah, Jehovah... all we ever talk about is Jehovah. Where really is Jesus in all of this?" I mean, we DID bring him up from time to time, but for some reason I felt embarrassed that we didn't do it more often. I felt... ashamed and 'wrong', I guess.
A few weeks after that, I heard two distinct voices and REALLY though demons were playing games with me. So, I ignored them. OF COURSE! But, they persisted, and after awhile I heard one of the voices say... and had this OVERWHELMING URGE... "why not answer?" This went on for a bit, them speaking, me ignoring, one saying "why not answer?", until I finally gave in and decided to 'go for it', and said, "Alright, who is this please?"
One voice said, "I am Jehovah" (I have since learned why that name was used and what the TRUE name of my Father is), and the other said, "I am the Christ." So, okay, demons playing tricks. I decided I wasn't playing. But, they persisted, and I ask again who it was and got the same answer. I decided to go a little further and said, "Okay, IF your Jehovah, can I talk to you?" and immediately one 'presence' disappeared, just like that, but the other one said, "No one comes to the Father except through me." And, of course, I then asked, "And so, WHO are YOU?" And 'he' said, "I am the Christ."
I asked him how I would know that he was not a demon (remember, we had been TRAINED to 'fear' demons... although NO ONE in the Bible feared them... things that make you go 'hmmmmm'...), and he said that while the Adversary could transform himself into an ANGEL of Light, he could NOT transform himself into the LIGHT (John 8:12), nor could he imitate the Father. And so, a conversation ensued. I then asked him WHY he was there, speaking to ME. And he said that I had ASKED for him... and the Father had SENT him.
I told him that I had NOT asked for him, and he immediately took me back to a point about three weeks earlier, when I was sitting in the Kingdom Hall, saying a prayer to 'Jehovah', telling Him that I was bothered that I didn't know Jesus more (I mean, the man had DIED for me, right? And was my 'leader' and 'mediator'. For some reason, I HAD to know him... or at least know OF him... to a greater extent.) I could see myself and the others, just as we were, and I heard myself say, "Father, if Jesus IS my Lord, please let me KNOW him."
And he said that THAT was why he was there, that I had ASKED for him, and in response, the Father had SENT him. I asked him if I could ask him questions (are you kidding, wouldn't YOU?), and he said, "You can ask me ANYTHING..." And the rest is history.
And YOU... and all others... can do the same thing, ASK... and RECEIVE. There are only three (3) (sorry, if you caught this before the edit - I DID say I was a 'dingbat' and I guess not being able to count to three proves that, eh?) requirements:
1. That you ask IN FAITH... NOT DOUBTING... KNOWING that he WILL answer you;
2. That you ask OUT OF A CLEAN HEART, because you want to KNOW him and NOT because you want to be special or have something proven to you and allow you to prove to others; your 'motive' MUST be 'pure';
3. And that you LISTEN to what you hear... put FAITH in it... and OBEY if it is a directive. What KIND of 'directive'? Well, he MAY say to you, "Crossroads (Mark), you know, you're not really all that 'clean' inside. You do this and think that and have done this." Do you immediately STOP listening? Or do you say, "Please forgive me, help me fix it, make in me a clean and steadfast heart... AND TELL ME MORE SO THAT I CAN BE 'REFINED'...?
He may tell you things to say to others, but I PROMISE you, he will start with YOU. YOU... must 'come into the light' to have YOUR 'works reproved'. For it is only then that you are clean enough to 'carry the utensils of JAH.'
When I asked my Lord why ME, why he had come to and spoken to ME, he said that it was because I had faith... 'the size of a mustard seed', which initially REALLY saddened me. Because I thought, if I have only that much faith... where in the WORLD is the faith of everyone else? Because I really wasn't that 'faithful'. After a few months, he let me know that I didn't HAVE such faith on my own... he had GIVEN me faith... the size of a mustard seed... so that I COULD hear him.
You can do it, Mark. ANYONE can. That is what my Lord MEANT when he said, 'Come to ME... all you who are toiling and loaded down...", when he said, "Anyone that is thirsty, let him come to ME and drink...". It is what he meant when he said:
"You are searching the scriptures, because you THINK
that by means of THEM you will have life. But these
are the very ones that bear witness about ME... and
yet... YOU DO NOT WANT TO COME TO ME... that you may
have life."
John 5:39, 40
And so, he has not be NOT to put my trust in earthling man nor in the law written on stone tablets. He has taught me instead, to refer to the law written on my heart... where HE wrote it... in indelible ink... and to come to HIM... and through HIM... approach the Father. I have been before the throne of my Father, before the Ark of the Covenant, seen the 24 elders and touched the glassy sea. I have seen the Ark in its TRUE glory... and I have seen what spirit creatures REALLY look like... without the 'long garment of skin' that WE have, which Adam sold us into.
I have been barred from seeing nothing and hearing nothing, for all things that the Father has told the Son, the Son has condescended to tell me and keeps telling me. And yet, I am nothing. I am not better than ANY of earthling man, indeed, by means of my Father's will and that of my Lords', I am a SERVANT... to all mankind, starting with the Household of God, Israel. And it is to Israel and those who 'go with' them that I must speak and share what I myself 'receive'. I received it free; I must give it free.
Therefore, what my Lord utters to me in 'low tones', what he 'whispers' into my ear, I must shout... from the housetops even... no matter what the 'threat'. (Matthew 10:26-28). And I do, every chance I get, because I love them: I love my Lord, the Son of God, JAHESHUA (JAH saves) MISCHAJAH (messiah; chosen of JAH). I love my Father, the Holy One of Israel, JAH OF ARMIES. And I love all those that they love... ALL of the world... Israel AND the nations.
Unfortunately, all... don't love them. Israel... OR the nations.
I bid you peace, and I remain,
YOUR servant, and a slave of Christ,
SJ
crossroads

First, Aguest Thanks for spending the time to answer
at least THAT question of mine. I do believe in JESUS
and that you can have an intimate relationship with
HIM. But it's just HIM and you. HE will make feel you better
He will lead you in the right path to take if you are
so inclined to listen. Yes you can throw all your
burdens on HIM. All you need is "a bus of load of
faith to get buy" if you know who penned that line
I'll be very impressed. FAITH that HE was here HE
died and HE rose again. Talking about keeping it
simple stupid I mean can it be any easier.
But the things you post have no merit.
Didn't Stephen get Resurected instantly because
HE never died he fell asleep asking JESUS to
accept HIS spirit. So once JESUS rose the ressurection
had begun. In revelation JESUS comes and takes his
faithful away before the tribulation STARTS
REV:3--10
The 144,000 are gathered once he takes these ones away.
These are the ones that learn the word from the two
witness's who then arrive on the scene probably
Mose's and Elijah. Read the transfiguration and
the rich man and lazarus and of course the only two
places where 144,000 are mentioned. BTW anionted
ones do not have to be of the 144,000 because STEPHEN
and all apostles were anionted yet not off that group.
One other thing the 144,000 are all JEWISH. Now then
if you are not jewish and didn't get taken away prior
by the LORD. This is your last chance for salvation
and that is to be part of that great crowd which accepts
the word that the 144,000 accept but are not jewish.
As far as the spiritual kind of being that I and others will be at that time I do not know, neither may I add do
you. I just got to keep on keeping on in the FAITH of
our LORD that he will take me there.
Anyway that is what is written I do not claim to have
new scrolls or have any new information DIRECTLY
given me by something or being from beyond and if
you think HE talks directly to you. Then really you are
no better than Smith, Young, White, Russel, Rutherford,
Franz, White,The Pope, Koresh, Moon, or any of our
other cult hero's.
Peace and Love
Mark
AGuest

Hey there, 'Cross... and may you have peace!
I would like to respond to your kind post, if I may. With regard to our 'relationship' with Christ, you are correct... it is one-on-one... and I have NEVER said or taught different. At least, not since coming to know him. He has told me and shown me WONDERFUL things, and in return has asked only one thing: that I tell OTHERS about him, about my Father, about those wonderful things, as he tells me and/or shows me... and tell them that they TOO can come to him and see and hear the same things as well! WITHOUT me! Really, that is my 'commission' and all that I am doing. If anyone here tells you different, they are either liars, or have completely missed the entire point of what I have been given to share.
You go on to say:
:>"But the things you post have no merit. Didn't Stephen get Resurected instantly because HE never died he fell asleep asking JESUS to accept HIS spirit."
No, actually, what Stephen did was what my Lord did... give up his spirit to God. That is not a 'resurrection', Mark. Sorry. My Lord gave up his spirit to my Father and was RESURRECTED three days later. That's why there was no body. But with Stephen, he asked my Lord to received his spirit and afterwards 'fell asleep'. His flesh died. There was body. BELIEVE me, if there hadn't been SOMEONE would have told about it.
There are only three incidents in the Bible where ones left no body: Moses and Elijah (both of whom were seen with my Lord when he transfigured)... and Enoch, who was 'transferred so as not to see death.' These three were among those taken to be 'under the altar', who had to 'rest a little while longer' in the Revelation.
Next, you said:
:>"So once JESUS rose the ressurection had begun."
Not according to the disciples. In fact, they had a heated dispute over this matter. Some were saying that there WAS no resurrection, and others were saying that it had already occurred. But the revelation tells us when BOTH resurrections occur and BOTH occur after Satan has been 'abyssed', with the general even after the 1,000 years have ended, Satan loosed and ultimately destroyed. To day that pursuant to the Revelation, the resurrection has already occurred, would be to say that Satan... is no longer among us. What a FRIGHTFUL thought! We are committing all this heinous evil ALL ON OUR OWN - shudder! Then imagine what it was like when he WAS here. No, he's still around, wreaking havoc... and we are still letting him.
:>"In revelation JESUS comes and takes his faithful away before the tribulation STARTS REV:3--10"
Really? How do you come to that conclusion when in Revelation 3 he says, "I am COMING..." and in Revelation 4 through 10, John... is taken THERE and in Revelation 22 my Lord STILL says he is 'coming' and John then begs "COME, Lord JahEshua?" Beyond that, how is it then that Matthew 24:29-31 tells us that 'immediately AFTER the tribulation...' certain things would occur and then 'ALL the tribes of the earth... will see the Son of Man COMING...' and that it is THEN that he, through his angels, will... 'gather his chosen ones from the four winds, from one extremity OF HEAVEN to their other extremity?" If their spirits returned to God (Ecc. 12:7), and God is in Heaven... would he have to 'gather' their spirits from there?
:>"The 144,000 are gathered once he takes these ones away."
Actually, they are gathered, along with the great crowd, at the time my Lord arrives. Michael (the remaining 'cherub' of the ark or 'arkangel' - Exodus 25:18) will sound his trumpet (as he always does when announcing the arrival of my Lord), and those in union with Christ who have died... will RISE... at the same time that those who are in union with Christ but have NOT died... are changed.
John 11:25, 26
1 Corinthians 15:51, 52
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
Revelation 20:4-6
Matthew 24:29-31
:>"These are the ones that learn the word from the two witness's who then arrive on the scene probably Mose's and Elijah."
Uh, the two witnesses are not Moses and Elijah. Moses and Elijah, dear one, are two of the 24 elders. I promise you. I have seen them all. The two witnesses DO, however, have the SPIRIT of Moses and Elijah, just as Elisha and John the Baptist had it. Since the spirit of God is ONE... and therefore, unified, it transfers among His 'house'.
Thus, the two witnesses will be those two 'anointed' who possess the SAME spirit possessed by Elijah (the Prophet) and Moses (the Mediator and therefore, Christ)... HOLY SPIRIT... at the time spoken of.
Revelation 11:4
Zechariah 4:2, 3, 11-14
Matthew 17:11-13
Luke 1:17
Numbers 11:25
:>"Read the transfiguration..."
I have.
:>"... and the rich man and lazarus..."
Read that as well.
:>"... and of course the only two places where 144,000 are mentioned.
Ditto.
:>"BTW anionted ones do not have to be of the 144,000 because STEPHEN
and all apostles were anionted yet not off that group.
One other thing the 144,000 are all JEWISH."
Uh, not quite. The apostles are not of the 144,000, but Stephen is. He is among those who received the promised holy spirit either when or soon after it was first 'poured out' at Pentecost. But... he was not among the 12, as neither was/is Paul or James the physical half-brother of my Lord. Apostle simply means 'sent one', and in that light, the first 70 sent out were 'apostles'.
However, it is only the 12 that were/are 'special' in that he entered into the covenant with THEM... directly and personally, face to face... and granted THEM 'authority' to judge the 144,000.
And the 144,000 are NOT all 'Jewish'. They are, in fact, all ISRAELITES, taken from all twelve tribes of Israel:
1. JEWS - from "Judah", the 2-tribe kingdom of Judah and Benjamin;
AND
2. SAMARITANS - from "Israel", the 10-tribe kingdom of Israel made up of all OTHER tribes, including two for Jospeh (Joseph and Mannasseh)... but excluding Dan (he gave up his portion back in Canaan).
I would ask humbly you to REREAD Revelation 7:4-8 and take note of who is listed there.
:>"Now then if you are not jewish and didn't get taken away prior
by the LORD. This is your last chance for salvation and that is to be part of that great crowd which accepts the word that the 144,000 accept but are not jewish."
Uh, not exactly. The great crowd and 144,000 are 'called' at the same time. Both Jews and Greeks were called; Israelites and NON-Israelites... holy ones AND 'faithful ones in union with Christ'. And I am personally not among the great crowd, but a descendant of Abraham, a Jew, by means of my father, Benjamin, from whose tribe I hail.
And since I accept the Christ as my Lord, that makes me as being chosen 'from among the sons of Israel' and therefore, a member of those 144,000 FROM among Israel.
:>"As far as the spiritual kind of being that I and others will be at that time I do not know, neither may I add do
you."
I understand.
:>I just got to keep on keeping on in the FAITH of
our LORD that he will take me there."
Indeed, you are absolutely correct. Therefore, I ADMONISH you, in love, to KEEP ON seeking, and KEEP ON asking, and KEEP ON knocking... for if you DO... it WILL 'be opened to you' as well.
:>"Anyway that is what is written I do not claim to have
new scrolls..."
There ARE no 'new scrolls'. There are only two, one of which was written, from the 'founding of the world' (or 'throwing down of the seed...), and the other during the days of the prophets.
:>"... or have any new information DIRECTLY
given me by something or being from beyond..."
Again, I understand.
:>"... and if you think HE talks directly to you. Then really you are
no better than Smith, Young, White, Russel, Rutherford,
Franz, White,The Pope, Koresh, Moon, or any of our
other cult hero's..."
You are absolutely right: I am TRULY... NO better. But I am DIFFERENT... and actually more like my brothers, the apostles and disciples of the first century and since, and those spoken of in the 11th Chapter of the letter to the Hebrews, my 'faithful' forefathers. Do I expect you, however, to understand? Absolutely not. For it was foretold by my Lord that many WOULD not. No surprise there.
Be sure, though, that you never know of my setting up any organization or denomination or 'compound', or telling folks to drink Kool-aid (wine, maybe, or some other 'product of the vine'), but NOT Kool-aid). I won't tell them to identify themselves by some physical means, some OUTWARD appearance, or donate or contribute to anything... or follow ME... or even listen to ME.
What I WILL tell them is that, like me, the invitation is open to ALL who 'wish' it to ask for and receive the promise holy spirit so that God and Christ can and will come and 'dwell' in them, making THEM a 'living stone' in the temple of my God and Father, JAH OF ARMIES, and that in order to 'remain in union' with my Lord, the Son of God, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, they will have to 'obey his commandments', one of which is to eat his flesh and drink his blood, as represented by unleavend bread and 'new' wine... and not to worry so much about cleasning the OUTSIDE of the 'cup' and trying to appear 'righteous before MEN', but to cleanse the INSIDE of the 'cup' so as to appear righteous before GOD... and that rather than give their money to 'earthly' temples and organizations and thus 'store up treasures on earth,' they should, instead, 'look after widows and orphans' and give their unrighteous riches to the poor and homeless and sick that they come across and thereby 'store up treasures in heaven'... and follow INSTEAD... the 'Fine Shepherd' who calls all his OWN sheep BY NAME and leads them HIMSELF... and thereafter... LISTEN... to HIM... and STOP trying to prevent any others... the 'little children'... from doing so if they so 'wish' it.
Matthew 11:28
John 7:37, 38
Revelation 22:17
John 14:23
Romans 8:9
John 15:4-7
John 6:56
John 6:48-55
Luke 22:19, 20
1 Corinthians 11:23-26
John 6:51, 53
Isaiah 58:6, 7
Matthew 6:20
James 1:27
Acts 4:32-37
John 10:1-9, 27
Matthew 17:3
As well as relate to them whatever it is that my Lord TELLS me to relate, whether of the things now here, the things that were... or the things yet to be... with out fear.
Matthew 10:27, 28
Matthew 5:13-16
Revelation 1:19
I bid you peace, 'Cross... and will pray that the undeserved kindness and mercy of my God and Father, JAH OF ARMIES, and the peace of His Son and Christ, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... will come to be upon the person of you... if indeed you so 'wish' it.
Acts 19:2, 6
But truthfully, all YOU need do is accept the invitation from the Spirit AND the Bride... extended ALL of 'earthling' mankind, to:
"Come... take 'life's water' (holy spirit)... free!"
Your servant, a TRUE servant to the Household of God, Israel, and a TRUE slave of Christ,
SJ
Agape

Testing, one two three
crossroads

AGUEST-----Yes you are right they are from Isreal
to me jewish is the same thing so we agree on that
and that I must say is pretty much it.Basketball game
is on soon so just the first thing. JESUS'S body did
die it was wraped and entombed. But GOD Jesus
did not; he went to the underworld and preached for
those parts of three days.Stephen asked JESUS God
to accept his spirit just the way Jesus asked the Father
to accept his. It's almost identical is it not. Well tip off
is coming pretty soon so I must be going. Not sure
if I'll return tonight but if I don't it has been nice going
back and forth with you.
Peace and Love
Mark
P.S are you saying Micheal and Jesus is the same being
man(woman sorry) now thats all wrong
AGuest

Hey, 'Cross... may you have peace!
No, Michael and my Lord are NOT the same individuals. Michael is an 'arkangel', ONE of the cherubs of the ark. The 'arkangel' that is now called 'Satan' is the other. My Lord is the 'Propitiatory'... or 'covering' of the Ark. The cherubs... 'covered' the Propitiatory. Just like there are four living creatures (cherubs, seraphs, fiery serpents) surrounding the throne of my Father, there were TWO assigned to my Lord.
The second, the one that is now called 'Satan and Devil', took sides with the 'Last Enemy', the archenemy of my Father, Death. He CHOSE Death, and has since become High Priest for Death in the same way that my Lord is High Priest of Life. My Lord leads people to Life; Satan, leads them to Death.
Both Michael and Satan were to PROTECT what 'belonged' to my Lord... US... the inheritance prepared for my Lord. Satan rebelled as a result of haughtiness due to his self-image; Michael, however, battled for what 'belonged' to my Lord in the heavens, and is standing on behalf of us on earth now. And it is his 'trumpet' that is heard every time my Lord is arriving; it is he that 'announces' my Lord.
Those that believe Michael and my Lord are the same are in error on many fronts, but primarily because my Lord would never give the admonition to not 'go blowing your trumpet ahead of you' and yet do so himself. My Lord does not, has not and will never 'glorify' himself... he has one to do it for him.
As regards who my Lord and Stephen gave their spirits 'up' to, they are not the same. My Lord gave HIS spirit up to my Father; Stephen, however, gaves HIS spirit up... to my Lord... the One who said, "All authority... has been GIVEN me... in heaven and on earth." The only ones who can receive the spirits of those who belong to God are God... and His Son. The Son, my Lord, did not give his spirit to himself... and Stephen could not give to God for my Lord said, "for NO ONE comes to the Father... except through me.
My Lord's spirit did indeed go to Hades, where he preached to those who died during the days of the Flood. And, as promised by my Father, his soul was not LEFT there. For prior to his RECEIVING the 'keys' to Death and Hades, they (the keys) were the possession of my Father. And when there, if any there put faith in him, their names were then written in his Book.
Stephen's spirit, however, went 'under the altar' to join the rest of those who had been 'slaughtered' for the witness about my Lord they had given, which altar is manned by the High Priest... my Lord.
I hope this helps. I bid you peace!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SJ
James

To AGuest and to Agape
About this debate of the resurrection, I’ve made some researches in the Bible and would like to share them with you all.
I come to the conclusion that the body Jesus had at the resurrection must have been the same body he had on the cross, but no more a NATURAL, MORTAL one. According to the Bible record, there cannot be another way to explain how He did appear to the disciples. The disciple Luke in his gospel chapter 24, verses 36-43 says:
„ While they were speaking of these things he himself stood in their midst and said to them: ‘ May you have peace.’ But because they were terrified, and had become frightened, they were IMAGINING they beheld a spirit. So he said to them: ‘ Why are you troubled, and why is it doubts come up in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that IT IS MYSELF; feel me and see, BECAUSE A SPIRIT ( pneuma) DOES NOT HAVE FLESH and BONES just as you behold that I HAVE.’ And as he said this he showed them his hands and his feet. But while they were still not believing for sheer joy and were wondering, he said to them: ‘ Do you have something there to eat?’ And they handed him a piece of broiled fish; and HE TOOK IT AND ATE IT BEFORE THEIR EYES."
A similar narrative was already quoted, namely when the resurrected Jesus said to Thomas: ‘ Put your finger here and see my hands..’. John 20:26-29. Another one when he met the apostles, while they were fishing in the sea of Tiberias. See John 21: 1-14
Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on the Whole Bible, says about:
"It should seem that though Christ’s body, after his resurrection, was the very same body in which he suffered and died, as appeared by the marks in it, yet it was so far changed as to become either visible or not visible as he thought fit to make it, which was a step towards its being made a glorious body. As soon as he had given his disciples one glimpse of him he was gone presently. They were terrified, supposing that they had seen a spirit, because he came in among them without any noise, and was in the midst of them ere they were aware. The word used (Mt. 14:26), when they said It is a spirit, is phantasma , it is a spectre, an apparition; but the word here used is pneuma , the word that properly signifies a spirit; they supposed it to be a spirit not clothed with a real body."
It is logical and scriptural. Jesus could not prove His resurrection to the apostles if He was resurrected like a spirit. They would have never believed it. But by touching His wounds and seeing Him eating with them, they had the real proof of His resurrection. Interestingly Jesus was capable of going beyond time and space. He could entry in the room, even though the door was closed. Suddenly ‘He stood in their midst’. He had the same features of His former body, but now one capable to overcome the laws of nature and space; yes supernatural. A ‘spiritual’ one, namely made to fit heaven.
Robertson’s Word Pictures of the New Testament says:
„In the case of Christ this change from the natural body to the spiritual body was wrought in less than three days and even then the body of Jesus was in a transition state before the ascension. He ate and could be handled and yet passed through closed doors."
This transition state ended when He ascended to the Father. His body was then glorified, that is it reached another level of glory or dimension, much higher then when He appeared to the apostles. About this Paul wrote to the Hebrews, chap. 2:9: „ But we behold Jesus, who has been made a little lower than angels (in his natural body), CROWNED WITH GLORY AND HONOR for having suffered death, that he by God’s undeserved kindness might taste death for every man."
Nevertheless He kept His human features and characteristic. Why? you may ask. Because HE WAS AND STILL REMAINS THE ‘SON OF MAN’. Did not Jesus himself foretell:" Then they will see the SON OF MAN coming on the clouds...?
The next record of Jesus appearings after the ascension to heaven, is written in Acts chap. 9, when „suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him (Saul=Paul)." This may indicate that He had now been glorified in heaven. Additionally in the Revelation to John, chap. 1:12-17, Jesus appeared as a glorious one, SOMEONE LIKE A SON OF MAN ( - So much about Jesus - )
Now the question arises about those who will be resurrected in like manner as Jesus did.
Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:50, 51:" ..that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s Kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. We shall all be CHANGED..)."
So I think, that if our fleshly body cannot inherit heaven, in other words, is not fitting for living in heaven, then we will have to put on at the resurrection, a ‘spiritual’ body, namely one which has the human features and characteristics, but immortal, glorious. This point was the main truth Paul wrote to the Corinthians, in the same chapter as above, verses 35-49:
· Vers 40: „ and there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies; but the glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort".
· Vers 42:" So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption."
· Vers 44:" It is sown a physical (natural) body, it is raised up a spiritual body."
· Vers 49:" And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust (Adam), we shal bear also the image of the heavenly one (the resurrected Jesus)."
· Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament
„The resurrection body is not wholly pneuma. Caution is needed here in filling out details concerning the psyche and the pneuma. But certainly he means to say that the "spiritual body" has some kind of germinal connection with the "natural body," though the development is glorious beyond our comprehension though not beyond the power of Christ to perform (Philippians 3:21). „
· Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible
Jamieson, Fausset, Brown
„If it be a different body, how can the personal identity be preserved? Paul answers, In one sense it will be the same body, in another, a distinct body. It will be a body, but a spiritual, not a natural, body."
I think that we don’t really know exactly how it will look like, but the Bible speaks of a living after the resurrection in a dimension which is not as we live today on earth. I mean that in the New Jerusalem (Revelation chapp. 21, 22) where also the old faithful ones will reside (Hebrew 11:10, 16), the slaves of God are said to ‘render Him sacred service; and they will see his face’! We could not survive this view with our natural bodies. That’s why I believe we will receive at the resurrection, or will have to put on, a ‘spiritual’ immortal body, namely one which has, yes, his germ with human characteristics and features, but fitting for living in a different dimension than in our present day earth.
Romans 11:33:
„O the depth of God’s riches and wisdom and knowledge! How unsearchable his judgments are and past tracing out his ways are!"
With christian love
James
AGuest

Dearest James... may you have peace!
To a great extent... you are correct. We WILL have 'changed' bodies... from that which is earthly or 'terrestrial' to that which is spiritual/heavenly or 'celestial'.
However, the image of the earthly body is NOT the same as that of the spiritual body. Indeed, both have eyes, ears, mouths, hands, feet, etc., but I promise you, what one looks like IN THE SPIRIT... is not what one looks like... IN THE PHYSICAL FLESH.
After Adam's inability to HANDLE his 'nakedness', he was given 'a long garment of skin'. Many believe to have been animal skin... clothing... to cover his naked physical flesh. It was not. Adam had a body like that of my Lord... one that could 'go in and out' of the spirit/physical realms. Just as my Lord could 'transfigure', so, too could Adam. That was how God put him IN the garden, for flesh... with its BLOOD... cannot 'enter'. So, Adam was 'changed'.
When my Lord died, it was WHEN he died that his flesh was 'changed', just as it will be for us. He 'transfigured' in order to be able to go to Hades and preach to the spirits there. Then, he is resurrected back to THIS realm. But... as Paul SAID... it is SOWN a PHYSICAL BODY... it is RAISED UP... a SPIRITUAL BODY. So, my Lord indeed had his 'white robe' when he appeared to the disciples.
The 'white robe', however, can 'put on' ANY appearance that it wishes to. Why? BECAUSE IT IS FREE! It is not 'limited' in the way the earthly flesh is. That is why Satan... could 'appear'... as a serpent. That is why Legion... could enter into swine, as well as men.
To know what spirit beings REALLY appear like, I bid you to read the following link. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=6510&site=3 And look up the scriptures/verses, if you will. You will be QUITE surprised.
I bid you peace, and I am...
Your servant, and a slave of Christ,
SJ
James

To Aguest
thank you for your Post. What I don’t understand is that you say ‘ Adam had a body like that of my Lord..one that could go ‘in and out’ of the spirit/physical realm’. If it was so, why does Genesis 2:21 reports about the creation of Eve:" ..(Jehovah) took one of his (Adam) ribs and then closed up THE FLESH over its place". There are actually no evidences in the Scriptures that God created Adam and Eve with such a ‘spiritual’ body, even though the Bible says that ‘God created them in His image’.
The physical body was not a consequence of the fall, because before they sinned, God himself blessed them and ordered ‘to be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it’. If they received this blessing in their ‘spiritual’ state, then of course the reproduction of an offspring was a part of this kind of life. And we can conclude, if it is true what you said about those bodies, that the ‘spiritual’ bodies were created male and female and to survive they needed to eat of the fruits in the garden.
According to the inspired record in the Genesis, God made the first man out of the DUST. Earthly, physical, but with the prospective of eternal life. And the first woman was made out of Adam’s body. Also earthly, physical!
In your link about spiritual creatures you said that they din’t have organs. So I ask you, were organs in Adam’s body or he received them when he first sinned? If Adam received the command to eat the fruits in the Garden which were permitted, before he sinned against God, then we must conclude, that he was created with organs, as well all humans have, but perfect ones. So what I want to say, is that his beginning was in the perfect HUMAN, EARTHLY LIFE. The perspective of eternal life, in an higher dimension, was only future.
But you consider the garment God gave Adam after the fall as a reward! You cannot compare it with the 'white robe' given to the FAITHFUL ONES!
That’s why I think that what you said about Adam’s body is not scriptural. I have reread the words of the apostle Paul to the Corinthians in the chapt. 15:45-49 several times, but the logical conclusion is only one:
„It is so written:’the first man Adam became a living soul’. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. Nevertheless, the first is, NOT THAT WHICH IS SPIRITUAL, but that which IS PHYSICAL, afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is OUT OF THE EARTH and made of dust; the second man is out of heaven........And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly one."
This what the Bible says and nobody can deny it. The first man Adam was made out of dust, out of the earth. Not as a spiritual creature. And as a physical perfect human he was submitted to the natural laws of the creation. The reward of the tree of life was something future, depending on his obedience to God.
That is also the point which the apostle Paul was teaching to the corinthian Christians: As the seed of plants must die to give the life to the plant, which carries in it all the features and characteristics of the seed, a life in a far more glorious way and image, so our bodies must die to put on that one which is from heaven, because our mortal body is not suited to survive in heaven (1.Corinth. 15:35-41).
When Paul said that we will be changed, used the words ‘we must put on’ immortality.. and so on. Robertsons in his Word Pictures in the New Testament says about this verb:" Must put on (dei endusasthai). Aorist (ingressive) middle infinitive, put on as a garment." You called it ‘white robe’ and this is also what the Revelation calls it, having been given as a garment to the resurrected ones.
This reminds to me the words in Philippians 3:20:
„ As for us, our citizenship exists in the heavens, from which place also we are eagerly waiting for a savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will refashion our humiliated body to be conformed to his glorious body according to the operation of the power that he has, even to subject all things to himself."
My conclusion is this:
There is nothing wrong in discussing what the Bible really says about this subject. But don’t you agree with me, that the ‘problem’ of HOW it will really look like, is not our task but is something which the Lord will decide in His own authority? I think you will agree. And let us encourage one another , and all the more so as we behold the day drawing near.
May the God of peace be with you.
James

Resurrection... to what TYPE of body?

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