What is you 'red line'?

by no-zombie 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • no-zombie

    Today we hear a lot about red lines in political commentaries these days. But for those of us who are PIMOs, what be your red line? What would be the doctrinal change or event that would tip you over the edge into leaving for good, regardless of the repercussions? When I thought about it, I had three ... issues that even my uber JW family could not dismiss offhandedly.

    1. Changing the blood position into a conscience matter

    While I already believe that take a blood transfusion should be a conscience matter, the clear and open injustice of it ... all those poor bastards that died for nothing but obeying the commands of men ... would be too hard from me too ignore.

    2. Introducing personal Tithing

    The issue of tithing would be the final proof that the Organization is not a Christian religion at all, but a Jewish one with a soft Christian feel good covering and I couldn't remain a part of it. Plus it would show the lack of God's financial blessing by forcing people to contribute.

    3. A Nuclear War

    Nuclear War is a lot more survivable than most people think. Devastating, yes ... but quite survivable if your city is not directly targeted. But even a regional attack would indiscriminately kill of thousand or tens of thousands of Witnesses showing that God does not care or protect his so-called people at all. And sadly in this day and age, limited nuclear war is considered by more and more militaries as highly probable and strategically winnable.

    What would be your?

  • venus

    If they drop doctrine of 1914, it would mean that JWs are really students of God's word. It is not unusual that students would make mistake in the process of learning.

  • days of future passed
    days of future passed

    no zombie - when they changed from zero blood to fractions, it bothered me because they so strongly emphasized in the past, zero tolerance. It bothered older ones too. But none left. They may have said to themselves that they wouldn't take any blood but if others did, well that was their conscience.....

    Some might leave or realize that it couldn't be right to just change it. But in the past there was something similar with organ transplants. Who knows how many died obeying them, I know of one. But when it changed, a bunch of JW's didn't leave. So I'm sure some would but not a lot. I'm not a pimo by the way.

  • faithnomore

    I left because of the change in the blood doctrine. I lost a loved one who died because they wouldn't take any blood or blood products. They would be alive today with the new stance.

    That was my red line!

  • MrRoboto

    Other than to laugh to myself, I don't really keep track of doctrine anymore. Yes, I'm pimo but for me now its just a matter of time & family matters, not doctrine.

    Having said that though, if doctrinal change would be a red line for certain others, I could probably go straight to pomo. I don't support the bORG more than minimal and the elders don't seem to care enough to hassle me about it. Works for me for now but really just biding my time, may have to just cut loose if things don't go fast enough but would prefer a fade for familial reasons.

  • Phizzy

    Having over the last decade read many personal stories from Posters here of trying to get family out, it seems to me you have to be constantly working at it, or they will stay where they are.

    To just coast along keeping all you know to yourself and thinking they may wake up rarely works.

    So it may be good to set a goal ! Set a date that is firm, and if no progress has been made with family by then, determine to do a speedy "fade", ceasing all JW activity within a certain time, set by yourself.

    Waiting for a Doctrine change or some other event is wasting too much of your life.

    Courage my friends ! step on the Road to Freedom !

  • WTWizard

    Forcing everyone to pious-sneer. I remember that time they tried this on two contiguous months. The first had 5 Saturdays, so they used that to guilt everyone to pious-sneer for that month. The following month had 5 Sundays, and they tried the same crap on that month. They commonly do that on months that have 5 full weekends, taking that away from the god machines.

    I also do not like having them shove a pledge form to donate into my face. And when I simply leave it home (shredded), they shove another one in my face and try forcing me to fill in an amount (bigger than the zero they deserve) right in front of the hounders, so they can hound me into meeting or beating that regardless of my circumstances or how much joke-hova deserves. (Which is minus infinity.)

  • OnTheWayOut
    1. Changing the blood position into a conscience matter
    2. Introducing personal Tithing
    3. A Nuclear War

    I like number one and number two. I hope it doesn't ever come down to number 3 for anyone.

    While I am already out, I can tell you that there never was a red-line even though there should have been. Instead, time kept adding more straws to my back and no single straw was my reason, but carrying them all for a while, I finally said "What is wrong here."

    I primarily left over doctrine- the changing of "generation" being the main one.

    Here's my thoughts on if I had stayed- When they changed to the "overlapping generation," I would have been there at that Watchtower lesson, I would have laughed loudly at the paragraph that introduced it, and I would have stood up and said "They went too far, I am outta here."

  • MrRoboto

    Phizzy, lotsa progress made but unfortunately there's a giant wall (not mine) getting in the way of further progress. People see what they want to when they can't bear to see the truth (tatt) in it's entirety or to act in accord with it. I am not in a position to fade on my own - I wont go into details here but suffice it to say that if I try to fade, I will be forced out, probably within a few weeks/months and have to deal with bad blood in my own house for a long time after that. seems a moot point to resist the inevitable but my household is worth the hassle that has been & will be and so I hold on to the ultimate in human weakness - hope.

    WTWizard: are they using forms these days? maybe I missed that meeting (actually I never missed a meeting in my life - hah!) I've only seen (that I remember) blank pieces of paper that get a number on it and put into the time sheet box.

    is there really a pledge form now?

    Also, one creative way of dealing with that is not putting a number but a few words. "Whatever Jehovah Allows Me To Give" or perhaps you could say something like "$300, Jah willing"

    of course we know that "Jah" would never want anyone to support this wicked institution so you're safe there.

  • Doubting Bro
    Doubting Bro

    Tithing would be my red line. It's one thing to occasionally go and zone out for a few hours but there's no way I could justify giving them one red cent.

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