The Elder Trap.

Englishman

(I posted this on the KH thread, but that thread has descended into a squabble. I think it's worth a thread of it's own).

"Anyone who thinks that this place is similar to a Kingdom Hall with elders in control has no clue as to how the commercial world operates.

Anyone who thinks that this place is like a Kingdom Hall controlled by persons with elder-like tendencies is probably going to struggle to hold down a job, make friends other than with those who feel the same way, and will always be struggling against the tide.

The reason is simple. The elder system is a copy-cat system based on the commercial world of managers, assistants and employees. A moderated forum will operate, somewhat loosely, on a similar system where a degree of control is required. Because the elder system is a parody of the commercial system, that doesn't make the system wrong. What is wrong is that elders control one's entire personal life. The commercial system and this site does not do that.

One of the biggest mistakes made by newbie ex's is to assume that accepting any control or authority is putting oneself back under the elder system. Consequently, the rebellion that these people experience does nothing more than keep them poor, without true friends and more screwed up than ever. They actually become the one's that witnesses point and say "Look what happens when you leave the truth!"

Some form of control in parts of our lives is essential, otherwise the whole world descends into anarchy. If we reject all control because of bad experiences with elders, who gets hurt the most? "

Englishman.

Simon

Well said.

I do wonder about how some people cope in the real world after the WTS and I guess the truth is that they don't. While they compare anything and everything to the WTS they are still well under it's yoke and still being controlled, however much they try to make out they are free and liberated.

Some also feel the need to step into the shoes of the apostates that the WTS lays out for them and become what the WTS said they would. Shame.

donkey

For myself I have issues with human authority because I generally see the source of that authority looking to advance itself and that advancement is normally occurring at the expense of the will of those over whom it reigns.

I have had too many life experiences during which authority was abusive to me (some of which some people here know but most don't) to the point of taking a physical toll on my health. So my nature now is to usurp authority whenever I can - I am probably to the point where I obsess over freedom because of my past experiences. Thus I agree we cannot live without being subjected to authority - most of us have to live under a government or have to work for a boss. But "if I win the lotto my boss can bite me" - thus usurping the authority at the first chance I get.

It's not a personal thing with me - in general I have mostly formed good relationships with those who are in authority over me - all the while disliking the authority they have and trying to understand one thing:

Do they have the authority over me because I gave it to them ?

Knowing that I gave it to them in a strange sense allows me either to cast it off immediately or to feel empowered to cast it off at any point I choose to. So far this has proven true in every instance. The one thing that keeps happening though is that I do always find myself under authority of some sort and I now think this will be true until I die. Then I will be free of authority as I know death holds no power over me and if I am dead there is no "me" to hold power over so it becomes moot (Moot is a stupid sounding word - kinda like a dumb person who can't spell).

So where does this leave me? In a world trying to figure out who I should give authority to. I am the enabler of authority in the free world. As long as I am not held captive again no one can claim they hold authority over me. The have it but I control it. If they use it in a way that shows respect for me I will continue to allow them to have it for a while but in due time I will always take it back.

Donkey

Gadget

The Elder Trap.

Anybody know where I can get hold of one of these? I have some things I want to discuss with one, but they all seem to be avoiding me.

blondie

That's a live catch trap, right, Gadget?

waiting

Agreed - the KH is designed after the commercial world. Auto dealerships are a good example - there's at least 5/8 managers in any dealership - not including the owner. After all the bosses in the dealership, there's the zone manager. After him, another manager. After him, the home office....and the manager ladder just keeps on going.

But nobody in that dealership has any authority over their employees after hours.

Except one instance. A new car manager got drunk, masturbated loudly while sitting at the table of a local bar/restaurant with two women (neither was his wife), then he proceeded to strut down the aisle with his engorged penis hanging out of his pants - telling all the women to "take their lick."

We heard about it the next morning at another dealership. Btw, that manager was out of our city by sunrise. No joke. Except the locals (at other dealerships) are still laughing about it.

Just thought I'd bring an early chuckle to this thread.

waiting

Stacy Smith

Well there obviously can be people who run the forum who may exibit elder like tendencies but the only control they will have is here on the forum. So the comparison to the KH is silly.

We get to leave if we choose without being shunned by family members and friends.

I didn't even bother to read the other thread. Maybe I should.

Englishman

Except one instance. A new car manager got drunk, masturbated loudly while sitting at the table of a local bar/restaurant with two women (neither was his wife), then he proceeded to strut down the aisle with his engorged penis hanging out of his pants - telling all the women to "take their lick."

Well, did they?

Englishman.

Sassy

There is no comparison here as to being in a KH. While it is true that no matter where we are we should treat people with respect which is something we would have been expected to have done in a KH. That is more about being a good person, plain and simple decency. For one who has left the JW, yes we might feel rebellious, but that does not mean we can have chaos around us and have people around us by choice. I look at the mods/admins here and see how they too were once in the religion but have left, so why would we want to take out on them or compare them to elders. That is a huge insult. Really, coming here is like coming to Simon's home along with his family of relatives (other mods/admins). Would we go to someone's home and trash the place after an invite for dinner?

What we need to remember is that if we have anger towards the elders for the control that was in our life, is that our anger is on them, not on the world. Other wise how can we go forward and have a decent happy life.

gumby

The word "AUTHORITY".....scares people.

Basically the only thing REALLY being done here is rules are being set by those entitled to do so. Every aspect of life has rules. If you poke yourself in the eye...it hurts. You can't break that rule called "sticking your finger in your eye really hurts". Rules have to be set or there is anarchy. SOMEONE.....has to set those rules. Those who set those rules, get labels by other people who do not see that rules must be set........

Gumby

The Elder Trap.

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