JW apologetics websites. (page 3)

Bungi Bill

Joe Grundy

The 'unanimity of beliefs' of the 'first christians' seems to me to be a myth,

I think you just nailed it!

That is why councils such as that held in Nicea in AD 325 were convened - i.e. to try and establish some common ground.

Joe Grundy

Yes, and to put it into context, that was about 300 years -repeat 300 years - after the first beliefs were formed. At a time when there were no universal media, no printing, no, well whatever.

Those interested in these things might find it interesting to look at a modern english language greek orthodox bible, which will generally include a lengthy introduction explaining the great schism about 1000 years ago.

My personal view is that there never has been a united view of what 'christians' believe, it has always been subject to and open to interpretations. This is evident through the gospels - and they were written at the minimum 30 years after jesus' death.

Again, this is about history, not theology.

Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu

Steel

''I do believe Jesus being a physical manifestation of God in the flesh in both the old and new really holds more credibility if the scriptures are sincerely studied.''

I agree very much

Before I came into contact with the witnesses I always believed in the Trinity,

But the witnesses were at that time very convincing, and changed my mind. For a couple of years then, I was convinced that the Trinity was false.

Currently I am taking an extra course on the university taught by a protestant theologian, and he explains it wonderfully, and like you say, if the scriptures are sincerely studied, the trinity becomes more and more clear.

By reading more of the scriptures it becomes more obvious.

For instance when you read Romans 10:9 and Romans 10:13, together with Yoel 2:32. In the Old Testament it referred to God, whereas in the New Testament it refers to Jesus.

Matthew 4:7 Jesus is being tested by the devil and says: Do not put the Lord your God to the test.

All the verses that precede this sentence are about the the temptation of Jesus by the devil. This verse would in my opinion not make sense if Jesus is not a physical manifestation of God.

God is the invisible power that presented himself to us by means of Jesus, who was God manifested in the flesh.

Steel

I am not trying to start an argument about the trinity.

The great point I am trying to make is when I studied with the elders and asked my questions, all I got was bombarded with literature. It was like being attacked by an octopus releasing a cloud of ink.

" what the new convanent is why we are not included in it ".

" why Jesus is just a god in John 1 "

" what the phrase visible image of the invisible god really means ".

so on and so on. I soon realized either the elders I were studying with were really really lazy or generally didn't really understand what they were trying to explain.

Now my question here is when you were in , did you understand the incredibly complex and twisted explanations of the WTS or did those briefcase full of books just make you sleep better at night.

Bungi Bill

Now my question here is when you were in , did you understand the incredibly complex and twisted explanations of the WTS or did those briefcase full of books just make you sleep better at night.

As I said earlier, there was a time when I thought that I did.

(And we all know what Thought did!)

atomant

Everything is so confusing.One has to keep an open mind when exploring all possibilitys otherwise you risk going insane.l believe the only time we will find out the truth is if we are reborn after we all die.if.????

steve2

Steel - sounds like you are struggling and we are not playing the game. Yours is a sophisticated cry of "It's not fair" - I acknowledge that can be frustrating and annoying for you.

You should not be surprised at the irreverent and/or non-believing replies on this forum - you perhaps inadvertently remind some of us where we were "at" during an earlier part of our journey. Now we realise that arguing over doctrine - or even just setting out reasons for believing a specific Biblical doctrine - is a waste of time because champions of the various "other" views can call upon Scriptural support because the Bible itself is wracked with contradictions and easily misinterpreted. If only Scripture were inspired of God and suitable for teaching! We wouldn't be bombarded with so many competing views and arguments, each one vying for center stage.

Steel

You are a real one trick pony aren't you Steve.

Steel

I was just googling a commentary on a verse John 12 41 about who did Isiah in the old testament see and what is being referred too.

A found a paper by Gregg Stanford with a 21 page response how it was jehovah not Jesus. Trying to read it was looking into the mind of a mad man.

Some of this stuff literally borders on mental illness.

JW apologetics websites.

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